I think that many companies continue to make and sell resin-based holds because their holds are not brittle or heavy and so there is no need to change materials… they are selling these products with success because they are good products! I do no mistake sales for quality: if their customers had problems with their holds, they would not continue to buy them!

Some existing companies have switched to urethane because their previous mix was obviously poor: they had to switch to something otherwise they would have never sold another hold! Many new companies have broken into the market with unique shapes that are probably only possible with urethane (such as those Crater rails).

There are some very clear benefits to the use of urethane in climbing holds. I understand the points you have made and I am not trying to bash urethane holds at all. While I think some makers of urethane holds have overstated some of the benefits of this material and I don’t believe all of the hype, there are some clear pros (just not enough pros for me to restrict myself to only one material or the other).

But in all honesty, if you, Crater, or anyone else could explain how “urethane resin is by far safer for the environment” I would love to hear it. How and why is it safer? Give me the chemistry, not an advertisement for a urethane product.

Ads for companies selling urethane products use environmental benefits as a selling feature, so it is really hard to trust this as a source of unbiased information. I would be very interested to learn what the real deal is in terms of the environmental considerations of polyester resin and urethane…
____
Dude! I feel like this has gone a little off of the rails… I didn’t mean to go off into some kind of urethane vs polyester resin debate!

I think it is recognized by almost everyone in the industry that climbing holds ARE going towards urethane. I don’t think that fact can be debated. When almost ALL the new companies that are starting up are using urethane I think it is safe to say that they have found a superior medium to push their product. The bigger companies aren’t switching because they don’t have to yet. Like I said in my original post, let’s talk again in 2 or 3 years and see how many companies are still using resin.

At our gym the first thing we do when holds arrive from a new company is check to see what the holds are made out of, if it is resin you can usually hear a loud sigh escape all of our lips. So the comment about being shocked to see resin holds was spot on.

This was taken from straight from the Crater site and I think it sums up the argument pretty well and explains why some companies aren’t switching over.

“Over seven years ago, we became convinced that polyurethane was the best resin system for climbing holds. While this resin system was quite a bit more expensive than the standard polyester resin, it did offer great advances in strength and durability. More importantly, urethane resin is by far safer for the environment. Even today, many of our biggest competitors still use polyester resin, despite the inherent problems with it. Some companies are reluctant to change because of the large price increase over polyester resins. We have always believed that quality of product and safety of our workers and the planet should take priority over profit margins.”

Cheers!
Ryan

“…I was shocked to find resin holds. It’s a little amazing that a North American hold company in the twenty-first century can still be selling holds made of brittle and heavy resin.”

So the review seemed a little over-the-top in their comments regarding the Friction mix… it is not like they are using some archaic materials, they are using materials similar to some of the largest companies in the business!

I would be interested to learn more about what you have said regarding the environmental pros and cons of resin and urethane… if you have any info, please post it up!

We also wanted to let you know that we have US Pricing for both retail and gym orders. Just drop us a line at info@frictionclimbing.com and we’ll help you out.

cheers,

Luigi

Cheers!
Ryan

All the companies you mentioned have been around for a good amount of time and probably have a solid, loyal customer base, so as long as that customer base isn’t asking for urethane, they don’t have to provide it. That being said, I think we are seeing a pretty direct movement in the climbing hold industry towards urethane, just look at these forums. I am sure that in the next couple of years we will see all these companies switch over to urethane. I am doubtful that a new company could come into the market using resin and survive. To me this means one thing; resin is on it’s way out. It’s becoming an archaic technology and last time I checked it’s not the best for the environment either. The last reason alone should be enough of a factor to push those thinking of switching over the edge.

As far as the texture debate goes, our gym being under 2 years old, has a pretty good selection of urethane holds as well as resin and I have to say that after 1 1/2 years of pressure washing and scrubbing, our urethane holds are fairing much better in the texture department then our resin holds.

Cheers!
Ryan

I thought the comments on resin were a little over-stated:
“…I was shocked to find resin holds. It’s a little amazing that a North American hold company in the twenty-first century can still be selling holds made of brittle and heavy resin.”

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren’t a lot of North American hold companies using a resin mix: Nicros, ETCH, Metolius, EP, Stone Age, etc…? It seems in wide use, so why are you so shocked?

I think the whole debate is blown just a little out of proportion… there are good resin mixes that are not brittle or heavy and there are bad mixes… there are good and bad urethane mixes as well. Some companies have a great mix… some don’t. In terms of the market, there is nothing wrong with having two or more options.

Whatever though, I get the pros and cons, just playing Devil’s advocate. Sometimes it seems like some holds get the shaft based on the use of resin alone. After all, resin is only one of the ingredients in the mix…

What’s the web address. Can’t seem to locate when I ‘Googled’. Lookin’ for some nice slopers for my home wall.

I have a good familiarity with the different wall builders and textures seen in the US, and the coarseness of these walls, compared to even a nicely finished paint-textured wall, is significant… which makes Friction less appealing down here. The weight, though less of a factor, still matters to some folks as well.

Another less serious point, but valid, is that for setters who are interested in purchasing with competitions in mind, the chance of resin breaking, and the greater difficulty in applying set-screws, also add subtly, to the drawbacks.

That said, I have long been a fan of the shapes themselves, as I’ve told Luigi numerous times – so Matt and Luke – nice work. Depending on your goals and target markets, the urethane switch may indeed be more important in the long run than the texture preference.

I know as well as you do that the dremel produces some looks like would be far harder to duplicate using other methods. And you’ve gotten some styles that I haven’t seen in other dremel shapes. Good job with that. But, I can’t imagine how your mold life is affected with this kind of detail on the shapes.

Not complaining per se, all of us shapers do things a bit differently. That’s a good thing as it provides us all with the variety the market is currently enjoying.

As for the material, I personally prefer the urethane texture. The biggest drawback with old-school materials is the fact that the edges will chip. Not a problem in a home wall situation, but in a commercial gym where not everyone is going to treat these holds with the love they deserve it’s a problem. Especially with slopers, once the edges are chipped it can really affect the usage of the hold. I hear you on the cost impact though. Still, I honestly believe you would see more interest from gyms “down below the line” if a switch was made. Most gyms I know of down here won’t buy anything that’s not urethane, regardless of how much they may like the shape.

I’ve long admired your line. Because of that, I’m glad to see you guys getting some much-deserved press.