Comments on: ABS Nationals – Who’s Going To Vail http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/ Sun, 24 Jan 2010 21:35:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: swk http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/comment-page-1/#comment-743 swk Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:27:11 +0000 http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/#comment-743 I thought the setters did a nice job at the junior event. The setting at nationals tends to be more technical and less powerful for the kids in general. Yes, a jump start is easier for a tall versus a short kid. But, in the long run and on most problems, it is a far greater advantage to be short. I have seen way more problems that a shorter climber has the advantage. High foot chips when traversing is one of them. Shorter levers, hips closer to the wall, etc... For the most part, look at all the kids that dominate the D, C, and B groups, they are all short. The difficult moves for a taller climber are harder for the novice see. I thought the setters did a nice job at the junior event. The setting at nationals tends to be more technical and less powerful for the kids in general.

Yes, a jump start is easier for a tall versus a short kid. But, in the long run and on most problems, it is a far greater advantage to be short. I have seen way more problems that a shorter climber has the advantage. High foot chips when traversing is one of them. Shorter levers, hips closer to the wall, etc…

For the most part, look at all the kids that dominate the D, C, and B groups, they are all short. The difficult moves for a taller climber are harder for the novice see.

]]> By: AJ http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/comment-page-1/#comment-697 AJ Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:52:44 +0000 http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/#comment-697 Paige Claasen sure has gotten hella strong!! :) Paige Claasen sure has gotten hella strong!! :)

]]> By: DJ AX http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/comment-page-1/#comment-690 DJ AX Mon, 25 Feb 2008 07:26:53 +0000 http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/#comment-690 hmmm.. guess my original comment was considered out of line. My point was (is)... nearly all physical sports favor certain physical traits. In basketball they don't lower the rim to level the playing field for shorter players. Teams get taller players. Some shorter players may overcome their physical disadvantage by either learning to jump much higher, or excelling at other areas to benefit the team. With climbing teams though, the latter is out, as it really just comes down to one person vs the obstacles. My mono pocket is these kids three finger rest jug. I'll deal with it. I might cry.. but only to myself, and I won't expect anybody to stop setting with mono's. That's just part of climbing. I certainly wish I had the strength to weight ratio advantage some of these "less than tall" kids have, but unfortunately, I'm kind of tall. I'm apparently at a physical disadvantage. Dang... Now don't get me wrong... as a professional setter with plenty of comp setting experience, I always take into account the climbers heights! Just as I need to know what level the top competitors are climbing at, I also need to know the height of the "least tall" persons. And I do everything I can to make every route accessible and equally as difficult for all of the competitors. It takes me a lot longer to set while making these considerations. And it removes many potential moves from my bag. But I'll do it... that's what I'm paid for. My point is .. well .. scattered in the words above. In fact I think there's a few of them up in there (not words, points). At any rate... ...as a setter, I'm sorry for any reachy moves I may have set, and I'll continue to avoid them and never stop learning about setting better as long as I'm an active setter..... ...and as a climber, ShazBot, man-up or do a different route. hmmm.. guess my original comment was considered out of line. My point was (is)… nearly all physical sports favor certain physical traits. In basketball they don’t lower the rim to level the playing field for shorter players. Teams get taller players. Some shorter players may overcome their physical disadvantage by either learning to jump much higher, or excelling at other areas to benefit the team. With climbing teams though, the latter is out, as it really just comes down to one person vs the obstacles.
My mono pocket is these kids three finger rest jug. I’ll deal with it. I might cry.. but only to myself, and I won’t expect anybody to stop setting with mono’s. That’s just part of climbing. I certainly wish I had the strength to weight ratio advantage some of these “less than tall” kids have, but unfortunately, I’m kind of tall. I’m apparently at a physical disadvantage. Dang…

Now don’t get me wrong… as a professional setter with plenty of comp setting experience, I always take into account the climbers heights! Just as I need to know what level the top competitors are climbing at, I also need to know the height of the “least tall” persons. And I do everything I can to make every route accessible and equally as difficult for all of the competitors. It takes me a lot longer to set while making these considerations. And it removes many potential moves from my bag. But I’ll do it… that’s what I’m paid for.

My point is .. well .. scattered in the words above. In fact I think there’s a few of them up in there (not words, points). At any rate…
…as a setter, I’m sorry for any reachy moves I may have set, and I’ll continue to avoid them and never stop learning about setting better as long as I’m an active setter…..
…and as a climber, ShazBot, man-up or do a different route.

]]> By: tyson http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/comment-page-1/#comment-689 tyson Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:12:30 +0000 http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/#comment-689 gabor is right, a jump start leaves a shorter climber at a disadvantage. it is easier for a taller climber to reach a jump start than it is for a smaller climber to reach a jump start. saying that the move was just as easy for a smaller climber is ridiculous. however, that is part of competition. being able to adapt to different situations and overcome obstacles that put you at a disadvantage. im sure there were moves that were much easier for short people than for taller people as well. actually, i know there were. it is time to move on from this topic. do not dwell on the fact that one move, on one problem, at one event, shut one climber down. it happens in every event. do not let this take away from the fact that the setters and the USAC threw an amazing event. stick around awhile, you will find plenty of things to get upset about after every comp you go to. and then you will learn to let them go. gabor is right,
a jump start leaves a shorter climber at a disadvantage. it is easier for a taller climber to reach a jump start than it is for a smaller climber to reach a jump start. saying that the move was just as easy for a smaller climber is ridiculous.
however, that is part of competition. being able to adapt to different situations and overcome obstacles that put you at a disadvantage.
im sure there were moves that were much easier for short people than for taller people as well. actually, i know there were.
it is time to move on from this topic. do not dwell on the fact that one move, on one problem, at one event, shut one climber down. it happens in every event. do not let this take away from the fact that the setters and the USAC threw an amazing event.
stick around awhile, you will find plenty of things to get upset about after every comp you go to. and then you will learn to let them go.

]]> By: gabor http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/comment-page-1/#comment-688 gabor Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:02:54 +0000 http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/#comment-688 yeah, it probably was a disadvantage for shorter climbers. but the point everyone is making is, not all moves are fair for everyone. sometimes its easier for tall people, sometimes for short. there are reachy moves everywhere - both on rock and in comps. in the end, the best climbers will be those who stop complaining about their disadvantages and instead work on improving on them. im sure there are plenty of people who are lanes height or shorter that would have been able to do the move. the current world champion - ramon julian - is 5'2. But you dont hear him complaining about his height... yeah, it probably was a disadvantage for shorter climbers. but the point everyone is making is, not all moves are fair for everyone. sometimes its easier for tall people, sometimes for short. there are reachy moves everywhere – both on rock and in comps. in the end, the best climbers will be those who stop complaining about their disadvantages and instead work on improving on them. im sure there are plenty of people who are lanes height or shorter that would have been able to do the move.

the current world champion – ramon julian – is 5′2. But you dont hear him complaining about his height…

]]> By: RhoadsClimbs http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/comment-page-1/#comment-687 RhoadsClimbs Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:30:18 +0000 http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/#comment-687 So, I just need a straight answer, do you guys believe that the jump start, all other abilities equal, was NOT a disadvantage for a shorter climber? So, I just need a straight answer, do you guys believe that the jump start, all other abilities equal, was NOT a disadvantage for a shorter climber?

]]> By: Sydney http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/comment-page-1/#comment-686 Sydney Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:25:12 +0000 http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/#comment-686 My name is spelled wrong.... :( but forerunning was a blast, almost better than competing. I thought both events were great and the problems were rad!! Definitely surprised none of the girls made it past that sloper on Open Women's 3 in finals. It seemed like no one was liking the slopers on finals 2 and 3 that night... Hey Mike when do I get a Routesetter.com shirt? :) My name is spelled wrong…. :( but forerunning was a blast, almost better than competing. I thought both events were great and the problems were rad!! Definitely surprised none of the girls made it past that sloper on Open Women’s 3 in finals. It seemed like no one was liking the slopers on finals 2 and 3 that night…

Hey Mike when do I get a Routesetter.com shirt? :)

]]> By: kyle http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/comment-page-1/#comment-685 kyle Sun, 24 Feb 2008 07:42:34 +0000 http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/#comment-685 Wow, this has all gotten pretty personal...that being said Climb Onsite get over it. I don't know you but you sound like one of those soccer moms that every one hates. First of all, if lane was doin months of "specific training" it might have been smart to train "specificly" for more dynamic movements and jump starts...this was a bouldering comp right? I have absolutly no jumping abilty, I'm the kid who runs into walls trying to do a jump start problem...but instead of complaining I WORKED harder for it. I'm sorry lane didn't do well, but every competitor out there has been shut down on a move or problem. and complaining about it will never help...all you or any one can do is take your failures and apply them to doing better in future comps...so there for god sake the horse is dead!! Molly, respect yo! Coming from a strait up vertically challenged white kid. I loved final #3 it was beautiful. see you at Jr route nationals i hope! Wow, this has all gotten pretty personal…that being said Climb Onsite get over it. I don’t know you but you sound like one of those soccer moms that every one hates.

First of all, if lane was doin months of “specific training” it might have been smart to train “specificly” for more dynamic movements and jump starts…this was a bouldering comp right? I have absolutly no jumping abilty, I’m the kid who runs into walls trying to do a jump start problem…but instead of complaining I WORKED harder for it.

I’m sorry lane didn’t do well, but every competitor out there has been shut down on a move or problem. and complaining about it will never help…all you or any one can do is take your failures and apply them to doing better in future comps…so there for god sake the horse is dead!!

Molly, respect yo! Coming from a strait up vertically challenged white kid. I loved final #3 it was beautiful. see you at Jr route nationals i hope!

]]> By: JEC http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/comment-page-1/#comment-684 JEC Sun, 24 Feb 2008 03:49:38 +0000 http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/#comment-684 Yeah, the fat kid thought it was unfair, too. Yeah, the fat kid thought it was unfair, too.

]]> By: RhoadsClimbs http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/comment-page-1/#comment-682 RhoadsClimbs Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:09:26 +0000 http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/#comment-682 I didn't think they actually understood what has been said. Sigh..... Ask the short kids, it was unfair. Hell, ask the tall kids, they will probably tell you the same. My competitor agreed the start was reachy and he was easily able to grab the holds with out even running. Die horse die! I didn’t think they actually understood what has been said. Sigh…..
Ask the short kids, it was unfair. Hell, ask the tall kids, they will probably tell you the same. My competitor agreed the start was reachy and he was easily able to grab the holds with out even running.
Die horse die!

]]> By: Molly Beard http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/comment-page-1/#comment-681 Molly Beard Sat, 23 Feb 2008 05:37:30 +0000 http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/#comment-681 Ok this was a productive discussion but now we are all beating a dead horse. Certain folks clearly aren't gonna be brought around to mine (and others) logic and experience. That's fine. I accepted long ago that it is impossible to make everyone happy in this line of work. But at least try to keep the snarky voices out? People don't take things personally until they start getting attacked, especially from folks who lash out from behind aliases. By attacked I mean specifically: implying someone is lying, or telling folks they 'just don't get it'; a less than clever way of trying to insult someone's intelligence/grasp of a opposing argument. This has gone beyond just 'stirring the pot' and Routesetter.com deserves better. Ok this was a productive discussion but now we are all beating a dead horse.

Certain folks clearly aren’t gonna be brought around to mine (and others) logic and experience. That’s fine. I accepted long ago that it is impossible to make everyone happy in this line of work. But at least try to keep the snarky voices out?

People don’t take things personally until they start getting attacked, especially from folks who lash out from behind aliases. By attacked I mean specifically: implying someone is lying, or telling folks they ‘just don’t get it’; a less than clever way of trying to insult someone’s intelligence/grasp of a opposing argument.

This has gone beyond just ’stirring the pot’ and Routesetter.com deserves better.

]]> By: RhoadsClimbs http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/comment-page-1/#comment-679 RhoadsClimbs Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:06:20 +0000 http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/#comment-679 Anonymous, Jeremy, you just don't get it, do you? It's not that he was too short to reach the holds, it was that at his height it was HARDER for him than others to reach AND control the start. That is the definition of reachy. Lane, (whom I don't know) seems to have been at a disadvantage because of only his height. I believe that was the point OnSight was making. BTW, if you are working in an event at this level where the stakes are high (like a spot on the national team), be fully prepared to take some criticism. It is the nature of the beast. Just don't take it personally. Anonymous, Jeremy, you just don’t get it, do you? It’s not that he was too short to reach the holds, it was that at his height it was HARDER for him than others to reach AND control the start. That is the definition of reachy. Lane, (whom I don’t know) seems to have been at a disadvantage because of only his height. I believe that was the point OnSight was making.

BTW, if you are working in an event at this level where the stakes are high (like a spot on the national team), be fully prepared to take some criticism. It is the nature of the beast. Just don’t take it personally.

]]> By: Climb OnSight http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/comment-page-1/#comment-678 Climb OnSight Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:07:11 +0000 http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/#comment-678 No, I’m not Lane’s parent. I’m just a fan of great climbing and great routes. I didn’t touch the start holds on route #3 so I can only speak to what I have heard. And yes, Lane was able to touch the bottom of the start hold. The problem was that there was a screw-on to the upper part of the start hold which was out of reach for him. That screw-on piece evidently was the critical part to be able to gain control of that hold. That, plus there was a 2nd start hold which was even farther beyond the first hold. I have no doubt that Lane could probably work on that route for some time and eventually get it. That’s not the point. Why was he forced to spend his limited time on the jump start when others could jump easily to the start within just one or two attempts? Lane was clearly the shortest and smallest of his category. As a result, most of the field of climbers had 4+ minutes to negotiate the route, whereas Lane never even got a chance to get on the route. Again, I think the jump start is great, but the setters have to realize who they are setting for and make sure no one gets singled out like happened this time. No, I’m not Lane’s parent. I’m just a fan of great climbing and great routes. I didn’t touch the start holds on route #3 so I can only speak to what I have heard. And yes, Lane was able to touch the bottom of the start hold. The problem was that there was a screw-on to the upper part of the start hold which was out of reach for him. That screw-on piece evidently was the critical part to be able to gain control of that hold. That, plus there was a 2nd start hold which was even farther beyond the first hold. I have no doubt that Lane could probably work on that route for some time and eventually get it. That’s not the point. Why was he forced to spend his limited time on the jump start when others could jump easily to the start within just one or two attempts? Lane was clearly the shortest and smallest of his category. As a result, most of the field of climbers had 4+ minutes to negotiate the route, whereas Lane never even got a chance to get on the route. Again, I think the jump start is great, but the setters have to realize who they are setting for and make sure no one gets singled out like happened this time.

]]> By: Jeremy Hardin http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/comment-page-1/#comment-677 Jeremy Hardin Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:45:16 +0000 http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/#comment-677 Wow, Yo are you one of Lane's parents or something? You know trying to live your life through your son's? Geez, first where to you get off questioning the accuracy Molly's statement? We did have a forerunner who was 5'2 AND she was a girl (sorry to throw that in there ladies! I'm an ass) Lane didn't fail on the problem because he didn't have the ability to reach the holds, he failed because he couldn't hold on! If you can touch the hold you can control it... You're acting like he was miles away from being able to grab the holds when in fact, he hit them several times. Yes, it did suck to be lane that day, but in noway was it the setters fault, the climb was completly doable for someone his height. And to comment on your comment about Lane's ability to make a spot on the team... I'm not trying to put the kid down or nothing, but I just checked the scores on usaclimbing.net and there were 10 scores better than his on the 1st problem, and 8 scores better than his on the 2nd. I'm not sure where you say if he had been able to do well on the final problem he'd have made the US team... No matter what the out come of a competition someone is going to be complaining and running their mouths... Molly you did an absolutly AMAZING job!! Wow, Yo are you one of Lane’s parents or something? You know trying to live your life through your son’s? Geez, first where to you get off questioning the accuracy Molly’s statement? We did have a forerunner who was 5′2 AND she was a girl (sorry to throw that in there ladies! I’m an ass) Lane didn’t fail on the problem because he didn’t have the ability to reach the holds, he failed because he couldn’t hold on! If you can touch the hold you can control it… You’re acting like he was miles away from being able to grab the holds when in fact, he hit them several times. Yes, it did suck to be lane that day, but in noway was it the setters fault, the climb was completly doable for someone his height. And to comment on your comment about Lane’s ability to make a spot on the team… I’m not trying to put the kid down or nothing, but I just checked the scores on usaclimbing.net and there were 10 scores better than his on the 1st problem, and 8 scores better than his on the 2nd. I’m not sure where you say if he had been able to do well on the final problem he’d have made the US team… No matter what the out come of a competition someone is going to be complaining and running their mouths… Molly you did an absolutly AMAZING job!!

]]> By: anonymous http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/comment-page-1/#comment-676 anonymous Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:36:31 +0000 http://www.routesetter.com/2008/02/19/abs-nationals-whos-going-to-vail/#comment-676 Well Climb OnSight, having not seen the problem I can't say for sure, but going on your information it seems like this kid should have been able to reach it. You say the start holds were 8.5'+ off the ground, so I'll assume 9' or 108 inches. the kid is 63" tall, so that leaves 45" between his head and the start holds. Figure he has a 1.5' reach above his head (which I think is conservative), and there are only 27" between his reach and the start holds. 27" is not all that far to jump, especially with a foothold. To me it sounds like if the kid is coordinated enough, he should be able to reach the holds without a problem. Well Climb OnSight, having not seen the problem I can’t say for sure, but going on your information it seems like this kid should have been able to reach it. You say the start holds were 8.5′+ off the ground, so I’ll assume 9′ or 108 inches. the kid is 63″ tall, so that leaves 45″ between his head and the start holds. Figure he has a 1.5′ reach above his head (which I think is conservative), and there are only 27″ between his reach and the start holds. 27″ is not all that far to jump, especially with a foothold. To me it sounds like if the kid is coordinated enough, he should be able to reach the holds without a problem.

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