Routesetter.com Forum » Topic: Workplace Safety Policies!

Routesetter.com Forum » Topic: Workplace Safety Policies! http://www.routesetter.com/forum/topic/workplace-safety-policies Just another bbPress community en-US Wed, 08 Feb 2012 02:07:57 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 <![CDATA[Search]]> q http://www.routesetter.com/forum/search.php bob.dolan on "Workplace Safety Policies!" http://www.routesetter.com/forum/topic/workplace-safety-policies#post-284 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:02:34 +0000 bob.dolan 284@http://www.routesetter.com/forum/ Fore-running warm-ups aside, what other occupational / health / safety / preventative measures do all of you take for your routesetting? Speaking first hand, routesetting can do a number on the body, from sheer repetition alone. Does anyone here do warm-ups just to prepare for moving ladders, hauling heavy buckets, jug up lines, spin wrenches? On the flip side, who here thinks that routesetting may qualify in a warm-up (in and of itself) for fore-running? Aaron Gibson on "Workplace Safety Policies!" http://www.routesetter.com/forum/topic/workplace-safety-policies#post-275 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:47:22 +0000 Aaron Gibson 275@http://www.routesetter.com/forum/ My position before owning a climbing gym (and being the head routesetter to boot) was in training health, safety and environmental for the FAA - and had particular emphasis on the OSHA fall protection aspects - namely, climbing radar towers and antennas for engineering work. So I understand both sides of the safety coin; industry and government regs. As far as how we operate our gym, we don't have a warm-up policy. And you won't find such a rule in the OSHA regs. However, that doesn't mean it isn't a good idea and a strong recommendation. In industry, you can make policy above and beyond what a government-level safety regulation is - and in fact, most places do (as they should) to protect their workers (physically) and, of course, themselves (legally). I agree with the others on here - that it is good that your gym is making an effort to protect their workers. I don't think it is too much to ask to have someone warm up and by making it "policy" they lessen their liability and the likelihood of an injury one step more. I think more gyms (and I must admit that even I am guilty of this) need to go further in setting work place policy and protecting their employees on more risky tasks. How many places actually have written training programs in place for safety in routesetting? spencerpdx on "Workplace Safety Policies!" http://www.routesetter.com/forum/topic/workplace-safety-policies#post-272 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:09:44 +0000 spencerpdx 272@http://www.routesetter.com/forum/ after years of working in rock gyms, i've found it best if i just sneak-up on problems and routesetting. like molly though, this is the first warm-up policy i have heard of. it makes sense, but i am hopeful that we as a society are working back to an era of personal responsibility and requirements can once again become valued/followed suggestions taught to new employees thru fable and anecdote. Molly Beard on "Workplace Safety Policies!" http://www.routesetter.com/forum/topic/workplace-safety-policies#post-268 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:51:24 +0000 Molly Beard 268@http://www.routesetter.com/forum/ Kaleb- To answer your primary question: While your boss' rule is a nice one, it is very atypical. I have worked at gyms all over the country for the past decade+ and this is the first time I have heard of it. As far as the warm-up thing in general, I do find that most setters do not warm up well or enough...they also tend to not stay in the trade long! Kaleb Thomas on "Workplace Safety Policies!" http://www.routesetter.com/forum/topic/workplace-safety-policies#post-264 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:08:57 +0000 Kaleb Thomas 264@http://www.routesetter.com/forum/ Thanks everyone!! Ya i am stoked my boss cares enough to make rules to protect us there is some good rules that need to be in place for sure. i'll make sure I am warming up before setting hard stuff, mainly because its easy money Brannon on "Workplace Safety Policies!" http://www.routesetter.com/forum/topic/workplace-safety-policies#post-263 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 05:58:34 +0000 Brannon 263@http://www.routesetter.com/forum/ It has been brought up that folks at OSHA and other agencies are the ones who make the rules and policies for industries and jobs they really have little or no experience of knowledge of. These are also the same folks who talk to insurance companies when a workers comp claim is filed. I can see routesetting being interpreted as being closer to construction work which requires helmets, long pants, work boots w/ steel toe, and many other regulations. Whatever can be done to document safety procedures and follow such polices will protect the company from lawsuits AND protect the worker who is injured on the job. I am all for standing up for what you believe in and not getting with tons of rules that only exist because someone likes to make more rules. When it comes to getting paid to warm up...take it, it's a gift! rock on "Workplace Safety Policies!" http://www.routesetter.com/forum/topic/workplace-safety-policies#post-260 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:16:03 +0000 rock 260@http://www.routesetter.com/forum/ Warming up before setting is essential... You should consider yourself lucky that you get paid to do it. RhoadsClimbs on "Workplace Safety Policies!" http://www.routesetter.com/forum/topic/workplace-safety-policies#post-258 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 17:30:32 +0000 RhoadsClimbs 258@http://www.routesetter.com/forum/ This is a case of policy Vs reality. Yes, these polices or rules have to be in place to protect a business from liability. The people of OSHA probably aren't climbers or auto workers or miners, but they do have to set a standard for the benefit of legality. Since the people who make these standards (OSHA, Insurance companies, ETC) don't really participate in these work environments odd things come up. All business' have some silly rules but in reality the rules are usually unenforceable and are simply to protect the business in the case of a lawsuit. In short, it's not worth arguing over an unenforceable rule such as you must warm up before setting. Personally, I spent a year injured (not work related!) setting with out climbing at all. So, the rule is reasonable because of the screwy nature of liability but I would find it obsessive and obnoxious for a employer to try to enforce that rule. Donovan Craig on "Workplace Safety Policies!" http://www.routesetter.com/forum/topic/workplace-safety-policies#post-256 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 17:25:27 +0000 Donovan Craig 256@http://www.routesetter.com/forum/ Just a quick blurb about warm ups: I once did an arborist stunt and was on the removal team from time to time. No warm up, just throw that 200pound log on your shoulder and get it to the chipper without killing yourself or any of the surroundings! Those guys need a warm up policy! Vincent on "Workplace Safety Policies!" http://www.routesetter.com/forum/topic/workplace-safety-policies#post-255 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 16:10:37 +0000 Vincent 255@http://www.routesetter.com/forum/ Safety is good. In fact it's great! It's really cool that your boss is looking out for you. Appreciate dat! I would think though... that it's really the workers responsibility to properly prepare themselves to do the work. Your boss is doing you two huge favors by reminding you of the importance of a warm up, and paying you to do it! I hate seeing an overly gung-ho employee go all out only to quickly break and/or wear themselves out. They're much better to be steady and consistent. On the note of the warm-up grade... Yeah that's completely relative to the individual. My warm-up is somebodies project. And vise versa. acorneau on "Workplace Safety Policies!" http://www.routesetter.com/forum/topic/workplace-safety-policies#post-254 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:49:01 +0000 acorneau 254@http://www.routesetter.com/forum/ No rule like that at Texas Rock Gym. Kaleb Thomas on "Workplace Safety Policies!" http://www.routesetter.com/forum/topic/workplace-safety-policies#post-253 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:28:56 +0000 Kaleb Thomas 253@http://www.routesetter.com/forum/ Thanks Donovan! My boss is a climber. And i agree my post was one-sided (hastly written maybe??) I do understand the need for the rule, i do not understand the rule itself? its hard to explain maybe.. But I am just curious if other gyms have this or not, and what their rules are. Donovan Craig on "Workplace Safety Policies!" http://www.routesetter.com/forum/topic/workplace-safety-policies#post-252 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:23:37 +0000 Donovan Craig 252@http://www.routesetter.com/forum/ Kaleb, First off, don’t look a gift horse in the mouth, and by that I mean, at least your facility has safety standards. Your post is a little one sided if you don’t mind me saying so, however I will bet that the owner of your facility isn’t a climber. Im betting on this because if you have to ‘fight’ to get your warm up climbs raised to a reasonable level then he/she may not understand how the dynamics of climbing are relative to each individual. To this I say… stop fighting, if he is willing to pay you to warm up, take the 4 hours that it takes you to warm on 5.9!(Not true: cause you’ll never really warm up properly if you don’t reach your personal level) If he doesn’t get the message after that, then that’s up to him/her! Get them to understand that each person is different and it takes different levels to accommodate different abilities. “i sell courses, by showing them something small out of basic technique” I truly good teacher shouldn’t have to show people how to do something, they should be able to articulate their thoughts in a way that is comprehendible by the student and therefore encourage them to seek more advice. I often refused to ‘show’ my customers something, I would try to talk them through it. The actual ‘showing’ was my ace in the hole as to why they “absolutely have to take my class!” Personally I don’t think that there really needs to be any stipulation about how you take care of yourself more so than there needs to be rules on how to conduct yourself while setting. For instance, when I managed my setters I always made sure that no quality control was done while setting, only after setting one all the tools and holds had been put away or moved out of the way. 2 incidents caused this rule, once a setter stepped off the wall and onto a hold that was lying right below him and he sprained his ankle. The other, the setter fell off the wall and almost stabbed himself in the back with a bolt that was sticking out of a feature!!! So yes, a best practices or guidelines or even policy is always needed. Hope this info helps a bit, Im sure its not exactly what you were looking for but, any knowledge is good knowledge! Cheers Kaleb Thomas on "Workplace Safety Policies!" http://www.routesetter.com/forum/topic/workplace-safety-policies#post-251 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 13:48:22 +0000 Kaleb Thomas 251@http://www.routesetter.com/forum/ My boss has recently finished his occupational work health and safety course, basically a bunch of things that he needs to follow so that i cant take legal action when i get hurt at work. One of the rules he has now created is a no climbing without wearing climbing or approach shoes, and no climbing harder then V0 or 5.9 without doing a proper warm-up before hand. He believes that by not warming up i will get hurt from climbing at work. I 100% understand the reasoning behind the rule, it is stupid for me to hop on a "limit" problem or route (for myself that is v7-v8, and 5.12+) i understand that, but V0 and 5.9? in my opinion V3 - 5.10d is a warm up. Long story short, we fought over it, he did say he is willing to pay us to warm up before setting (which is awesome!!) but i work the floor at our gym too, and I am personable person who loves to help people with beta, and technique stuff, its how i sell courses, by showing them something small out of basic technique to suck them into doing it. He asked me to do a post to see what other facilities are doing, if this rule exists anywhere else. I am a certified climbing instructor (ACMG CGI Level One) i know what a warm-up is, and i know about injury prevention. what is your facility doing? Do you think this rule makes sense? if yes, or no, how would you modify it to make both parties happy? I suggested making the minimum 5.10d / V3. Thanks!!