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2011 Urban Climber Hold Review

(25 posts) (15 voices)

Started 1 year ago by jackalope
Latest reply from AndyL

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jackalope
Member

Hello folks. I haven't seen it yet, but I know the 2011 UC Hold Review came out this month. The review was conducted at the Spot by myself and the other members of the Spot crew, and input was gathered from many customers and members as well.

Many companies submitted holds, and we took initial impressions opinions, then set a wall with them and took opinions on things like texture, aesthetics, shape and comfort throughout a three week period. We did our best to focus our feedback/review on the holds sent for the review, though in some cases we mentioned company history if it was known.

Because we had so many holds to review and so little space to do it in, the total length of each individual part of the article kept shrinking, meaning most reviews were 50 words or less, not really enough to give an intensive discussion of a hold company or even multiple sets of holds. I did my best with the space I had, and I was hoping to put more intensive discussions of each company on the Spot blog, depending on the okay from UC. I imagine that will be forthcoming.

I am writing here because of a Facebook discussion occurring over the Rock Candy review. I wrote that one set seemed "very messy and homemade." They posted the review and asked what other people thought. Obviously, opinions varied. Some people agreed that their quality control isn't 100%, and other people called me names. The thing is, of the two sets they sent us, one set did seem very messy and homemade, and many people said so. The texture was very aggressive (signifying, to me, a bad pour) and the shapes weren't very well received. However, the other set was described as a "surprisingly good set of pockets", but that, too, was taken by some to be an insult. The thing is, I said "surprisingly good" because, in my experience, any hold company producing a good set of pocket is surprising. Off the top of my head I can think of fewer than 10 small pocket holds EVER produced that I actually like to use (not including jug pockets). Therefore, a company submitting a whole set of fairly comfortable pockets was surprising. If this had been the old style of review (i.e. glorified advertising) I would have only written about the good set, and ignored the rest. This review was supposed to be more honest though--the kind of feedback you might get face to face with another setter. Obviously the review as a whole falls far short of that goal, largely due to space constraints, but I tried not to get completely away from my goal of a useful review despite the shrinking per-company word count. I guess one problem with this is that words like "surprising" can be, surprisingly, misunderstood.

Because of this issue, and because I figure you all read the review and had varying opinions, I was wondering if anyone found this review to be more or less helpful than previous reviews, and if anyone is interested on further explanation for anything contained in it. Hold companies are welcome to respond as well, or email me directly at spotsetters@gmail.com. Also, if I do end up posting longer pieces on the Spot blog, I will be sure to link to them here.

jackie

Posted 1 year ago #
offroute
Member

First of all thanks for taking the time to put the review together. Generally I thought it was well put together and informative. But as you mentioned above I felt like it was more of an appetizer before a big meal, and generally left me wanting to read a similar description for every hold set thats ever been made. Thanks again and I hope to read the WHOLE review up here sometime in the near future. 25

Posted 1 year ago #
kent dunham
Member

Haven't read the review, but any review that has no criticisms is not a review! What surprises me is that they would send you a sub-par set of holds knowing they are going to be reviewed and written about. If thats the quality of hold they submit for review, imagine how little they will care if you are just some small time gym. Don't be put off by criticisms of your criticisms!!

Hope this becomes an annual thing with UC mag.

Posted 1 year ago #
Rockcandyholds
Member

Below is a link to the facebook thread, it was not meant to be a place to bash on anyone or any group of people. I appreciate constructive criticism and I simply wanted to get feedback from people on our holds after the review to see where we could improve. I apologize if it brought anyone under personal attack as that was never my intention.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rock-Candy-Holds/54347798477#!/photo.php?fbid=10150203679563478&set=a.68507478477.95189.54347798477&theater

We did send out multiple sets of holds and knowing they were going to be reviewed we looked them over a couple times beyond our normal quality control. It surprises me to hear that we missed some pretty outstanding flaws! Which set was it that seemed "very messy and homemade"? I would like to review the set to how we could improve it or eliminate it all together.

We do our best to satisfy every customer, If you ever get sets/holds that you are not happy with give me a call or email and I will get it straightened out for you. We do eliminate/reshape sets from our line based on user feedback so do not hesitate to shoot me an email.

nathan@rockcandyholds.com
330.289.2420

-Nathan

Posted 1 year ago #
Igotaboner
Member

nathan,

This will be one of my most sincere responces to date, i will try and leave the humor and negativity to a minimum. That being said, jackalope and most of the Spot setters don't know shit about setting and what makes a good hold, "good". Yeah guys, great job putting on "the best bouldering comp ever" how much money did that event make? How many competitors did you have? Where's your event at this year? hahaha Keep living in your dream world getting off on one another. I almost want to say that CHR would have done a better job at that review... almost.. Nathan, while your shapes aren't e-grips and teknik just yet, your definitly on your way and produce very high quality and creative shapes. Keep up the good work and if i were you, i'd mold my erect dong into a shape and send it to the spot.

hasta lama lakum, one love. -igo

Posted 1 year ago #
Sloperslapper
Member

I climb at The Spot regularly, and have found their setters to consistently put up some of the most outstanding routes I've ever had the fortune of climbing on. Carlo, J^2, Jackie, Jon, and the rest of the crew regularly put up outstanding problems with a great variety. Their routes are not only very diverse and super fun, they also have made me a far better climber.

If you think your shit is so much better, stop being a pussy and use your real name - tell us where you set and put up your 8a scorecard. I somehow seriously doubt it can match Carlo's. If you think the Battle in the Bubble wasn't great, what are the comps YOU have personally set that you think were so much better?

Posted 1 year ago #
kent dunham
Member

I don't want to be a dick about this, but, based on the above post, Sloperslapper is your real name or you may be a pussy. I've never met you, I'm sure you're not a pussy. I just found it funny that you called Igotaboner out while using a pseudonym!

I like this forum, really good info and discussion, but it does seem that every thread that goes beyond 5 or 6 comments degenerates into personal bashing or dick measuring (my apologies to any ladies out there). Is it asking too much for the comments to stay within the subject matter of the first post?

Posted 1 year ago #
Sloperslapper
Member

Kent - the primary difference there is, I'm not calling someone out on an article they wrote, or saying they are absolutely terrible at their jobs.

"Igotaboner" felt strongly enough about his hatred for all things in the setting world that he registered a name here solely to trash people. If he's so great, and the other setters are so awful, he should step up and take ownership of his comments.

Me? I suck at setting, am fat, and have a bald spot - so I feel no need to attach my real name to this to try to justify myself. I'm also not coming here solely to troll routesetter.com, so I'm not quite in the same boat...

Edit: And yes, I am a pussy. But I'm not acting better than anybody here.

Posted 1 year ago #
ContactLB
Member

As someone who makes and sell holds I am interested in a little transparency regarding the review. Since it was touted as not being "glorified advertising" I am wondering which of the companies in the review did not take out ads in UC or Climbing magazine in the past year. I am willing to bet that all of the companies had ads in other issues.

In the past UC has used the review in the annual gear guide as a lure to get hold companies to advertise in other issues, so in essence it is just "glorified advertising".

I have no issue with that at all, but it is a worth a mention. Its not like someone went through all of the companies out there and picked certain ones to review.

Luke
Contact Climbing Holds

Posted 1 year ago #
jackalope
Member

Hey Luke,

I'm not sure if all the companies reviewed have advertised in the past year or not. I know that UC made an effort to contact all the hold companies they could think of, including all those they'd seen in recent issues of UC, Climbing, Rock and Ice, and DPM. They also searched the internet. Clearly they missed a few but it wasn't for lack of effort. I also know that they contacted over 20 companies repeatedly in an effort to include them in the review if they wanted to be included. Any hold company who responded was included. The mags put out a gear guide every year so I'm sure if you want Contact holds represented you can write them about it and they'd be glad to put your holds in with the rest.

jackie

Posted 1 year ago #
climbingholdreview
Member

Climb It weren't contacted at all, I just checked, they don't advertise with UC. Same for a bunch of other people as well.

Out.

Posted 1 year ago #
Louie Anderson
Member

If that's how it really went down, that's too bad...

There are a lot of valid companies out there that choose to spend their money and advertise in other ways.

If a truly unbiased review and comparison is to be done (and offered to the climbing consumer market)as many companies as possible should be involved.

Posted 1 year ago #
jackalope
Member

CHR - I'm having trouble understanding your stance here. Climb it was contacted, and, in fact, sent holds that were in the review. And they don't advertise with UC. So that's good, right?

Louie - As I said, UC made an effort to find as many hold companies as possible, regardless of whether or not they advertise with UC, or even other magazines. The mags were just a logical starting point to begin looking for climbing hold companies. The search was then extended to the Internet. I don't see how that should be a problem at all.

Posted 1 year ago #
Louie Anderson
Member

Jackie -

I was just responding to the comments made here. I've got personal experience with how twisted the inside world of the climbing mags can be. There is definitely a darker side to the industry than some people realize. If everything was handled fairly in this instance, I'm very happy as that's the way things should be done.

I haven't seen the issue or review yet. I know that these types of things can be a huge undertaking and amount of work for the people involved. Thanks to you and the Spot for taking it on. I don't know all of your setters, but I can't think of another setting team or gym that would be better suited for making the comparisons required in this type of a review.

As diverse as the hold industry has become in recent years, I think that anything along these lines is a welcome resource for consumers and gyms. The more complete the better, but to be honest a review that includes all companies and makes valid comparisons would probably be too large of a process to be feasibly offered in the (available) pages of any magazine.

Noodles' website does a good job of highlighting and reviewing specific sets, but I'd like to see something more complete. For instance, here are comments and comparisons on the jug offerings of let's say 30 companies...and the same for other hold types. This would be a huge undertaking and would probably be outdated as soon as it was published with how quickly new sets are released, but as a certified hold junkie I'd be interested to see the comparisons.

We all know about the bigger companies and most of their offerings, but I like to see what the little guys are doing too. The more options we all have as setters, the easier it is to do our jobs.

Posted 1 year ago #
climbingholdreview
Member

Weird, I spoke to Zach last night and asked if he was contacted about the reviews for UC and he said no. Maybe he didn't pay much attention to who or where he was sending holds to, or maybe Garrett dealt with it on his own. I know he climbs at the Spot...

My bad..

Posted 1 year ago #
Texas
Member

Motavation Volumes wasn't contacted about the hold review either. We've been featured at every major national comp in the past 12 months. Yet no email or phone call about any type of review. Then again, it was a hold review, not volume review. Luke phrased it the best with Louie being one step behind.

Posted 1 year ago #
Vincent
Member

I heard ... (hear say.. rumors right :-) (why am I still typing?) ..... [delete]

:-P

let it go

Posted 1 year ago #
Vincent
Member

... dems all some sweet climbing holds!

Posted 1 year ago #
foamdust
Member

Jumping in here....

We ( Contact Climbing Holds, LLC ) have sent holds to ALL of the major pubs to get "reviewed". Somehow when they receive the package we get a great phone call from their ADVERTISING department. Since we don't have a huge ( read: none ) ad budget we do not advertise with these pubs.

As a result, the holds never get reviewed. ( Or sent back for that matter, ha ha ha! )

The pubs are a business like everything else, one hand washes the other.

Dale@contactclimbing.com

PS - Pull out all of your "gear guides" from the past and let me know who gets reviewed and DOESN'T advertise.

PSS - We send cool holds for review and the mag chooses to "spotlight" a WATCH or some SOCKS? Really? Really?

Posted 1 year ago #
Kaleb Thomas
Member

Not to mention the ineffectiveness of the reviews.

90% of reviews in climbing mags only give the good points, you never ever hear a "this product sucks a lot". I pay absolutely no attention to Magazine reviews anymore, I read them but I take them with a grain of salt.

One mag in particular (I wont say which, but it rhymes with cock and rice...) always gives spectacular reviews of a certain climbing shoe company (that rhymes with five ten)... Ya sure I they make good shoes, but I also notice the back page ad, on EVERY cock and rice...

I am not looking to start a fight or insult anyone, thats just how I feel about Mag reviews...

And I very well may be wrong and this is all an innocent thing the Mags are doing...

P.S. I find Andrew Bisharat annoying, except the article about the dirtbags... I don't care if thats starts a fight haha

Posted 1 year ago #
offroute
Member

It seems to me like the consensus is the same. Big ads = consistent reviews. Every one of us has probably fondled every hold out there. Why cant we add a section or thread for hold reviews. A serious unbiased hold review? I would rather read what other setters have to say about holds rather than some advertising influenced over-edited magazine publication.

thoughts?

Posted 1 year ago #
Dr3wst3r
Member

I second that. I have found some great shapes that seem to be a bit under the radar. I think that many setters would love to share their favorite hold or something in that vein.

Posted 1 year ago #
jackalope
Member

I find the turns this post has taken to be...interesting. First of all, most of them show that most of the posters have not even looked at the review that started the whole shebang, or done any real research on their points of view about the industry in general. I find this frustrating because I was trying to have an honest discussion with a community that I thought took the time to engage each other in intelligent, well thought out discussion, and instead (with a few notable exceptions) I find out that we're getting the same knee-jerk negative reactions that define pretty much every other climbing message board out there. Routesetter is supposed to be different, because we're supposed to be a small group dedicated to a craft that is generally underpaid and under appreciated. I started this post because I was a bit embarrassed that my grand ideas for an honest and thorough hold review fell short, and I wanted to give you guys a chance to ask questions that you didn't feel the quite short reviews answered. Instead...

igo is a known troll, so no point in discussing his always unhelpful commentary. moving on...

CHR said that Climb-it wasn't contacted for the review, when in fact they were contacted, sent holds, and were in the review. If he'd read the review, or even glanced at it, he would know this and therefore have saved everyone some time.

Texas - you are right, it was a hold review, not a volume review, but of course in the future volumes could be included, since they're more or less holds. i don't think it's accurate to say you've been at EVERY major US pro event in the last 12 months though.

Luke and Dale (and Texas) are saying that the big bad magazines are out to get everyone. If you look at the people who advertised in the gear guide, you'll find 4 climbing hold companies' ads. The review covered 17 companies. Over 20 were contacted for it, and some chose not to send holds. ADVERTISING in the magazine, for the specific issue or at any other time, is not mandatory for inclusion. At all. I said all this earlier, when I explained how the reviewees were selected, but it seems to have failed to sink in. (As a business though, you have to admit that if you ran a magazine, and someone sent you product, it would be logical to at least contact them and see if they are interested in advertising or not. Also, you should know that the mags get a lot of stuff sent to them to review and there is no way they can fit it all in.)

Kaleb - your comment is funny because what started this entire thing was someone objecting to my saying in the review that some of their holds weren't the cream of the crop.

offroute - you are illustrating one of my points--that the consensus does not reflect reality. maybe in some cases, but not this case.

I think everyone who is feeling put down by the man here should 1) realize that climbing magazines are essentially a small business also struggling to survive. want to know why the mag is so thin? advertising makes it thicker. and 2) take a minute and decide to be proactive in the future. The gear guides come out at the same time every year (early spring). They start collecting stuff for it in late November/December. If you want to be included next year, take the step to call or email the magazine and ask if they are doing a review for the guide and if they are tell them you want to send some holds in for it. Problem solved.

I also definitely support the idea of community reviews on this forum. Maybe that would help some really small companies get some good exposure.

Posted 1 year ago #
foamdust
Member

Hi Jackie,

Good points, well received.

Your last point on the gear guides is flat-out wrong. They will not review you in the gear guide if you do not take out an ad. Please find me an example. I am going through them right now and can't find one.

I'm a little confused as you seem to be taking this very personal. Your writing is not under any attack here ( In fact, it's very good ) but lets not stick our heads in the sand when it comes to how it all works.

UC has reviewed some less-than-stellar products in their "hot stuff" section. Lets be real about that one.
Rock and Ice & Climbing ( Climbing being under the same umbrella as UC ) does exactly the same.
Spotlighting a drink mix that stops the pump? Turn to page 36 and you'll find the ad.
Spotlighting sport socks? Turn to page 25 and you'll find the ad. I think you get my point.

All small businesses are struggling to survive, especially in such a small demographic as the climbing community.

Your article was great, we are just commenting on the "reviewing" process.

DZ

PS - We ( Contact Climbing ) were never contacted for review. ( It's not that hard to find a list of hold companies and send them a mass email ) We've gotten this far without getting the golden review, so I'm not too worried about it. It just makes me laugh. PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!

Posted 1 year ago #
AndyL
Member

Hey Jackie - finally read through the issue and thought that it was a good overview of the holds and the companies.

I just have a home wall and I think that there needs to be more of this information out there and think it would be awesome if you guys expanded your blog to include all of the details of each sets that you were reviewing and the appropriate uses for the holds.

Climbing Hold Review has some good reviews of the holds but they are usually limited to a small wall to experiment on and I think it would be nice to have some other opinions out there.

Magazine reviews generally suck but this one at least felt like there was time put into it and not just a giant marketing orgy. Maybe contact DPM and see if they won't do a massive review?

Posted 1 year ago #

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