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1. Aaron Gibson
   Member

   It's pretty much true. The shapes are different but the feeling is basically the same. Urethane feels like urethane. Resin feels like resin. It's getting boring.

   I just returned from a trip to the UK where I spent some time climbing gritstone at Stanage. It was incredible. On the way home it got me thinking about how to simulate a grit route. Balancey. Slopey. Delicate but with tension. All things you can do with an artificial line. But one critical thing was missing: the texture!

   What better way to simulate and/or train for a specific area than to have specific feeling holds for that area? Not all holds have to be "friendly," do they? It would be nice to mix it up.

   I have some ways I'm going to experiment with and see if I can discover some materials and develop some methods for texturing and shaping holds to be more like particular areas. I'd like to know if anyone else has had success stories (and I'm not talking about just using actual rocks as holds) with making some very specific hold textures (not just shapes) to mimic an area.

   Particularly for those from the UK who climb on grit regularly, what ways have you found to simulate a grit route?

   Posted 2 years ago #

2. Morgan Barnes
   Member

   You can make holds out of plastic that have the exact texture of rock. You just have to make molds off of the actual rock. To make holds with washers embedded in them you have to make at least two molds. If your making screw-ons then you can get away with just one mold. I have made some holds out of the Volcanic Tuft found at Penitente canyon that turned out pretty nicely (also some slopes/pinches from granite river rocks). Although real rock holds have some distinct dis-advantages. The most obvious (for a lot of different rock types) is that you will lose skin. Now if you can't get outside much this might be nice as when you do you will have some form of callous. However if you climb outside a lot you might not want to lose that skin indoors. Also the texture tends to where away a bit faster, causing the holds to glass up, with plastic holds cast from real rock . The porousness of the floral foam allows the plastic to get worn down while maintaining friction. The sharp points of a real rock hold create spots that end up getting worn down to a polish. Now I have seen some pretty amazing texture on man made boulders that maintained friction even as the natural holds got worn down, if you could cast that material in real rock molds then you might be able to maintain friction with the holds even as they wore down. Although getting that stuff to be as resilient or light as plastic might be hard.

   Posted 2 years ago #

3. kent dunham
   Member

   I know exactly what you mean, all plastic holds to have roughly the same texture. I think this is on purpose though. I realize it may be blasphemous to say on this site, but gym climbing has is a means to an end: sending outside. The reason there are so many strong climbers today is because they can try the same move over and over in a gym and not reduce thier hands to hamburger.

   I have come across a few holds that sumulate a painful outdoor hold with either a sharp edge or wicked texture. By and large people hate these holds indoors. You certainly couldn't set with them in a comp without incurring the wrath of parents and "pro" climbers. I have even been instructed not to set monos in comp routes. I've come to accept that gym climbing will never simulate outdoors.

   Posted 2 years ago #

4. Rob
   Member

   I guess you might have to come to terms with the fact that indoor and outdoor climbing are different beasts.
   The main problem with making a hold that has uneven texture (which rock has) is that the high points in the grit will get polished really fast as was mentioned above. I think that there are some hold manufactures out there that mix some aggregate into their holds I think that HRT dose it if you can’t find anything out there you could try to make holds by mixing different textures into resins or urethane you can also mix texture into a gel coat and paint it onto existing holds.

   Posted 2 years ago #

5. RoyAL73
   Member

   Actually for me texture is only part of the difference in the feel of climbing holds vs real rock. I think two other factors are greatly overlooked. First, the temperature, as the synrock site with proselytizes ...real rock is cool and draws heat from your hand (except when its hot!). I just built a new homewall and put in some synrock holds (my first) and I have to say I am a believer! I installed a couple of the inset cracks and set some problems using only synrock holds and it is amazingly like an outdoor climbing experience for me.

   The second thing for me (and I might just be weird) is the density of the hold. I know many people love hollowback (CHR!), but I find it to be a weakness in terms of the actual feel of the climbing. I have a huge set of the old pusher cobbles with a massive blue cobble that must weigh 20-30 lbs...solid, dense resin. When I slap up to it, it just feels solid and extremely satisfying. Actually these big dense resin holds also seem cooler to me than the hollowback urethane so that could be playing back in as well. On the other hand if I take some of my favorite new hollowbacks, like rock candy extra large coprolite (rad holds), you can hear the hollow sound when you hit them and it seems to transmit a lighter force back to your hand.

   I wish some hollowback holds had a solid option (if cost weren't too much). Maybe you could build a hollow back urethane hold and fill it with resin for a solid feel/low cost? Probably I would be the only one to buy it since everyone else craves the lightness!

   Finally since no mentioned it yet, for grit texture you probably owe it to your self to check out extreme-dream gritstone holds (watch the CHR review!). Shipping to the states is prohibitive for me...but I wish I could get my hands on those basalts!

   Posted 2 years ago #

6. Kaleb Thomas
   Member

   Another factor is hold flex, all holds flex wether they are resin or urethane or whatever, as does the plywood the holds are attached too.

   this flex puts way less strain on your joints and muscles.... Dyno's outside are way harder then inside.

   Posted 2 years ago #

7. Vanilla Gorilla
   Member

   I have a bunch of synrock and petro grip holds they are cool. But the sharper granite holds tend to cause more tweeking of the tendons . We just got a bunch of plastic and they get warmer in the winter versus the synrock and petrogrips which will change the length of your wintertime boulder session! We used to have a few people to climb in the winter to get the btu's to rise. Also the real rock feet just tear up the shoes causing more money to be spent on resoles or new shoes which is a large factor in my book.

   Posted 2 years ago #

8. RoyAL73
   Member

   Good point about the flex Kaleb. My old wall had studs on 24" center and the new is at 16". I also used some very solid polybond oak panels and the new wall feels like it has zero flex (I'm sure it has some, but it really feels solid, no creaking now...it's really a part of the house). I wonder if some of my new found feeling of a more realistic climbing surface comes from having less flex as well as the new inset synrock holds.

   Posted 2 years ago #

9. Cranky
   Member

   One more important difference between most plastic holds and climbing outside is the nature of the holds in relation to the rock. What I mean is most holds outside are based on features which are inset in the stome. Weaknesses such as cracks and even crimps are cut into the rock where in the gym most holds protrude out. Cutting insets into the wall is not efficient but I do like to use holds which are shaped like slots and require a certain accuracy.

   In terms of texture I would like to see more variable texture with individual holds. A wide hold can have a well textured area hidden and some less textured areas which are easily accessible. This might make the hold more realistic but it is just and thought.

   Cranky

   Posted 2 years ago #

10. climbingholdreview
    Member

    Cranky

    The Kreases from Project are a good example of this
    Mind you RoyAL73, the Basalts from ED are great, the Grits are so rough it's mental

    N

    Posted 2 years ago #

11. Anonymous
    Unregistered

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