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1. NN
   Member

   Can anyone help me with quoting for hold carvings? I've just been asked by a company to price for designing and carving some foam prototypes for holds, but, having never done it commercially before, have no idea where to begin with costings!

   I don't expect anyone to mention their specific salaries/exact rates, but if you could at least give me an idea of A> how to charge (i.e. per set, per hold, day rate, emotional value, size, beauty, love and attention in the design etc.) and B> roughly how much I should expect (i.e. £10/$16 per hold or £100/$160 per hold).

   Any useful help appreciated! Cheers

   Posted 1 year ago #

2. Louie Anderson
   Member

   A) All of those issues factor into my pricing, but I usually charge per shape.

   B) This varies on complexity of the design, how many shapes I am doing (volume discounting), and how much business I feasibly plan to do with the company in question. With most of the companies that I routinely do work for, I have settled into established rates that we are both comfortable with.

   I also ask for a copy of the final production hold as part of my compensation. I like to see the finished products and I either climb on them, use them in my climbing wall jobs, or sell them to one of the local gyms. If you aren't interested in that side of it, you can ask for more money and not receive a copy of the final shape.

   You need to also realize that if you are new to this (unless you have a successful background in sculpting or something similar) that you aren't going to be able to work for what other shaping professionals are currently charging.

   My best advice would be to figure what your time is worth and how long you think it will take you. Present that number with the understanding that if things go well and it leads to more work for you, that you will want to revisit the shaping fees. They may want to as well.

   Good luck, and please post pics as things progress - welcome to the family!

   - Louie

   Posted 1 year ago #

3. Vincent
   Member

   Ever since I became a professional route setter...
   I've always wanted to be a professional climbing hold shaper! :-)

   Artists have struggled for ages on what to charge for their work. Paintings, Music, Climbing Hold Shapes, etc.

   It comes down to a balance of what you want and what someone is willing to pay.

   i.e. A high level experienced independent graphic designer can charge hundreds per hour. But one with no experience often makes nothing.

   So ... as good as your shapes are, you'll likely need to work cheap and develop a portfolio. Then you can better negotiate your pay in your favor, thus actually making it more worth your time.

   Make tremendously cool and fun shapes and shop 'em around. Maybe set up a private online auction and invite hold makers to view.

   and imho... the final word... "Royalties"
   That's the thing to get!
   If you've got the hits, well there's the most bang!

   ;-)

   Posted 1 year ago #

4. Donovan Craig
   Member

   I struggled with this for the longest time. I chatted to Louie and others personally and never got a straight answer. Suffice to say there isn’t a straight answer, but all you really can do is put a stick in the ground and move on from there.

   As Vince says, it comes down to what people are willing to pay and how much you can afford to sacrifice. The reason I say that is because I would like to think that I make really nice shapes, but I know that I have yet to reach say a Louie Anderson level. But when I calculate an hourly rate and the cost of my tools and add in the costs of the foam, rental space and a vacuum cleaner, theres no way I could charge for all of that. No one would buy anything of mine cause the price is far too high. So, I conceded to the fact that this is going to take time and that hopefully if Im good enough, it’ll pay off in the end.

   So far its going pretty well, I have helped one company completely change their lineup and as Louie mentioned it has added to my portfolio. So the money that I am not receiving in my back pocket right now, will hopefully come round the next time I shape a large quantity of sets.

   I will also add that I think its extremely difficult to break into the shaping market simply because any company that starts up already has a shaper or someone in mind who they think are doing a great job and therefore never think to look elsewhere. Once they’re up and running you find out about them and when you try to “market” to them, they’re not inclined because they think that they’re already doing a good job. So you not only have to be good at shaping but you have to offer youre own very unique style so that people will pay attention to the intricacies and painful details of your shapes.

   Don’t be discouraged… just expand your timeline on recouping your costs, and you’ll figure out how to make it work!

   Good Luck bro.

   Posted 1 year ago #

5. NN
   Member

   Guys, thanks for taking the time to read and answer my post - really appreciate your comments and thoughts.

   As mentioned I already have a company interested in my holds (or, more specifically my hold carving skills), so the self-marketing bit is done for me. I guess half the problem is that there are, compared with other industries, so few holds manufacturers and even fewer professional carvers, so there're hardly any benchmark facts and figures to go on. Still, at least I now know it's not just me struggling to get to grips with the necessary but super boring business of pricing!

   Just to pick up on a few points raised:

   Louis, I’m with you on getting a set of the holds I design (if they make it to production) – actually, reckon I’d do it for free simply so I could say “I designed that” to my mates at the wall! Yes, I do indeed have a sculpting background; I’m a stone sculptor by trade. (If you’re interested you can see of my stuff here: http://www.nicknorris.com/stone_sculpture_uk.html). I’ve been climbing and route setting for years, but now that I’ve got the change to mix my two loves: sculpture and climbing, I can’t wait to get stuck in. Yes, will post some pics when I can. Also, last week I found the excellent E-Grips website (never heard of them here in the UK) and realised that you designed loads of their holds – really great, inspiring work!

   Vincent, like the idea of royalties. Dunno what the company will say, but might give it a shot.

   Donovan, “No one would buy anything of mine cause the price is far too high.” - I know what you mean, when you work it all out then cost it all up accurately, it’s got to be a labour of love – I’m mean, how do you charge for spending 100s of hrs a week just thinking about different hold shapes, angles, surfaces etc. and then spending even more hrs questioning everyone/anyone that’ll answer at the wall about what a good hold means to them...? I also know that if I tried to charge my usual sculpting rates I’d definitely get no where simply ‘cos the industry’s not big/wealthy enough to afford them, yet.

   Cheers

   Also, if anyone else is reading this and cares to shed some more light on my second question about the kind of money I should be looking to quote for per hold or set please post a line or two.

   Happy carving!

   Posted 1 year ago #

6. Arjay
   Member

   Wow man, The Giant sculpture is pretty amazing! I also really liked the Drapery.

   Posted 1 year ago #

7. NN
   Member

   Cheers Arjay. Gotta try to make some interesting holds now; carving foam is so weird - it doesn't fight back like stone! No resistance…

   Posted 1 year ago #

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