So as some of you may already know.. we at the Detroit Rock Climbing Company (The DRCC) are in the process of crankin' out a load of new shapes. Hundreds in fact!.
And we've got the materials and gusto to still add some more for this Falls big release.
Question is... What new holds and/or features you'd like to see?
Any suggestions, requests, thoughts, ideas?
Thanks!
Vince, a while back I started playing with a shape that you could heel toe cam in, but it was still open enough that if you fell it would unlock and you wouldnt break your ankle. I think it would be interesting to see your take on this idea. To my knowledge no one has created one of these and I think it would be really interesting to have on a wall.
The biggest jug ever made. Preferably something I can crawl into mid route and get a no-hands rest.
If not that, then something like Teknik's no shadow handhold but dual-tex since that seems to be your thing. I picture the hold being pretty much like a oval with another smaller but textured circular dish placed on one of its foci. I've seen similar holds and I don't know if it already exists on the main stream market but the ones I've encountered were not very well made as the outer edge of the holds were good enough as a crimp that I never actually had to use the inside dish.
I think it would be good on anything slabby or vertical for both feet and hands. I can see some sick compression arete problems being set with this because if it's place sideways it would be a really sucky feet but fairly good hands. Give it some thought....
Tufa's. I haven't seen good ones made since Metolius made theirs.
Ah Tufa's there are some coming... probably mid November
dear climbing hold review -
I would appreciate it greatly if you would no longer come to this website and post your views and thoughts in this forum. I will outline the reasons why.
-First, you are not a routesetter. At least, not a routesetter in the sense that you set creative, thought provoking sequences that encourage a climber to think about what they are doing and learn a new skill. You set traverses and ladders under the guise of "routesetting" - and all with holds that pull straight down. And your traverses typically have a no hands rest in stemming corner, which brings us to...
-Your home wall sucks. It is the size of a closet, and it consists of vertical walls that intersect each other or a horizontal roof. Both of these angles are not exactly cutting - edge, to put it nicely.
-You are not a very experienced or skilled climber. What I am saying by this is that it is difficult to be a creative and gifted routesetter if your climbing ability maxes out at about v3 or 5.11. You just don't have the movement repertoire to be good.
-You post videos that are dumb. Your hold reviews contain little to no useful information about the quality or usability of the holds in a commercial or a competition environment. You post "how to" videos that are amateurish - not in video quality or editing, but in content. Case in point: Your "how to drill a pilot hole" instructional video. #1. Teknik holds don't really need pilots - their urethane is top notch. #2. You don't need three drill bits of different size to do the work of one countersink bit. #3. This "how to" video is based on the fact that a.)you know what you are talking about and b.) Teknik holds need a pilot for a set screw. Neither of these assumptions are true. FAIL.
-You try to post "insider" information about holds that are coming out or you try to respond on behalf of hold companies that you work as a sales rep for. Typically, this information is not necessarily true and you don't really know shit about the topic at hand. I remember a Project thread where you responded on behalf of Project Holds and tried to get everybody to believe that Project (and you as a sales rep) had their shit together and their difficulties in quality control and order fulfillment were temporary. Well, guess what, they are not temporary issues that Project has been having. I also remember you posting a response on the quality control issues that Metolius has been having recently and saying that it was an issue across the board when companies outsource their production. It is NOT an issue across the board, and you do nothing for our industry by making false statements such as this. (actually, your above post is what made me actually write out this whole response - that tufas are coming out in November from someone blah blah blah and you have secret insider information about it blah blah blah...it may come as a surprise to you, but possessing this information doesn't somehow make you cool. It makes you look like a hold dork.)
That's it for now, but maybe I'll remember some more reasons later and I'll post them too.
Sincerely,
Routesetters of the World
p.s. No response is necessary, as that would require you posting on this forum and website, and that is what I am asking you not to do.
....Zoro strikes again!
LOL ....
Sleeper agent!?!?!?! member since....
gayholdreview (gayholdreview)
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April 1, 2010 (5 months)
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Dear Gayholdreview,
It's interesting that you come across as a very bitter person and believe it or not your opinion matters little to me. But as I have a few minutes spare I figure what the hell I'll reply anyway.
STATEMENT 1:First, you are not a routesetter. At least, not a routesetter in the sense that you set creative, thought provoking sequences that encourage a climber to think about what they are doing and learn a new skill. You set traverses and ladders under the guise of "routesetting" - and all with holds that pull straight down. And your traverses typically have a no hands rest in stemming corner, which brings us to...
REPLY: Infact I used to be a RS, so you're wrong there. We (as in myself and my friends) set routes for ourselves, not for anyone else. We don't try to teach technique (That's Eric Horsts domain) and we set far more than you probably do. Most of my evenings are spent spinning wrenches, at home, setting with holds that are either coming out onto the market or already are on the market.
STATEMENT 2:-Your home wall sucks. It is the size of a closet, and it consists of vertical walls that intersect each other or a horizontal roof. Both of these angles are not exactly cutting - edge, to put it nicely.
REPLY: If you'd like to find me a bigger apartment and would like to pay for it, please feel free. I feel I've done the best with the space that I have, I don't have a huge house and in case you're wondering the wall has a 30 / 45 / 70 / flat and a roof. If you'd like to design me a wall that packs more in then again please feel free.
STATEMENT 3:-You are not a very experienced or skilled climber. What I am saying by this is that it is difficult to be a creative and gifted routesetter if your climbing ability maxes out at about v3 or 5.11. You just don't have the movement repertoire to be good.
REPLY: Really! I guess you know me then, you know me personally and you know what grade I climb... good for you... and your name is what? Fraid I play in the 12's and have started working on some V6's. But a good guess overall
STATEMENT 4:-You post videos that are dumb. Your hold reviews contain little to no useful information about the quality or usability of the holds in a commercial or a competition environment. You post "how to" videos that are amateurish - not in video quality or editing, but in content. Case in point: Your "how to drill a pilot hole" instructional video. #1. Teknik holds don't really need pilots - their urethane is top notch. #2. You don't need three drill bits of different size to do the work of one countersink bit. #3. This "how to" video is based on the fact that a.)you know what you are talking about and b.) Teknik holds need a pilot for a set screw. Neither of these assumptions are true. FAIL.
REPLY: If you feel you can do better I suggest you get off of your ass and do so. Shut me down or something. As for competition environments we film the Tour De Bloc and a lot of the holds we review end up there from time to time. We work with an experienced RS who gets the holds and he's bringing his comments over the next few months... so we cover some more bases than what we already do.
As for the Teknik set screw, sure we used a few too many steps and sure we used some more drills than was necessary but our screw holes are nice and counter sunk and look like they were there in the first place. We don't just chuck in a screw here or there (Which I guess you do)... and who knew that Tekniks mix would take a screw without blowing up; it's not mentioned on their site anywhere about being able to take a screw. Again, I suggest that if you can do better then you do so
STATEMENT 5:-You try to post "insider" information about holds that are coming out or you try to respond on behalf of hold companies that you work as a sales rep for. Typically, this information is not necessarily true and you don't really know shit about the topic at hand. I remember a Project thread where you responded on behalf of Project Holds and tried to get everybody to believe that Project (and you as a sales rep) had their shit together and their difficulties in quality control and order fulfillment were temporary. Well, guess what, they are not temporary issues that Project has been having. I also remember you posting a response on the quality control issues that Metolius has been having recently and saying that it was an issue across the board when companies outsource their production. It is NOT an issue across the board, and you do nothing for our industry by making false statements such as this. (actually, your above post is what made me actually write out this whole response - that tufas are coming out in November from someone blah blah blah and you have secret insider information about it blah blah blah...it may come as a surprise to you, but possessing this information doesn't somehow make you cool. It makes you look like a hold dork.)
REPLY: Project Holds should be absolutely fine, I've had no issues with orders. Insider information... no not really, people were asking what they'd like to see, I know that someone is currently molding some and they should be ready mid-november.. just a simple fact; nothing more nothing less. Metolius... as soon as I saw the post I mailed it on over to them so that they could see that you guys were talking about the issues you've been having: they are looking into the issue. So in fact I did you all a favor by alerting them about the issue... did you mail them to let them know? Or did you just complain when a hold broke?
I feel that, and please correct me if I'm wrong on the entire issue of "outsourced production" that as soon as the person who has shaped a hold hands it off to someone else to mold and then to pour they are out of the loop and if there are any issues the company that is pouring the hold (probably for little money) are more than likely to just send the hold out rather than re pour the hold as it cuts into their profit. I'm not saying this is the case, but unless the hold company owner etc etc is riding on the coat tails of the manufacturer all of the time checking that the holds are being molded / poured and sanded up to their expectations then you can almost expect a slight decrease in quality. It has happened.
Unless the production company is amazing then there are issues with a product that is hitting the market... kinks to be worked out as it were... and any company that has outsourced their products have had times like these. IMHO: I think it's a topic that should be discussed way more than right here right now... hearing the people that own the company's and the issues that they've had in outsourcing. (Maybe you should start that topic)
Sincerely,
Climbingholdreview
p.s: I can post wherever I like on whichever forum I like. If you don't like my reply's I suggest you just skip them.
p.p.s: I do love the way you use your real name, that's very big and very clever of you... therefore your opinion isn't really doing much, if you actually were a person, with a name, that posted under that name then I'd take you a little more seriously
Finally someone on this forum tells it like it is! I do take credit in hating you first tho CHR. Remember my "your wall is like the inside of my refrigerator" comment years ago, yep hated you from the get go. HAHAHA and keep acting like you dont care, took you less than 1/2 an hour to respond. Please take that comment to heart, you're doing nothing for our industry except goobering it up.
Ah the original hater, how are you sir?
1/2 hour to respond is just a matter of timing I happen to check the forum a couple of times a day :)
I do love the haters I have to admit, it gives the day a little more spice and gives me feedback on where I should be going and what I should be doing.
Yes Igotaboner, you're the original and I love you all the more for it
Dear Climbing Hold Review,
Well, I’m glad that you have time in your busy day to reply to my infantile post. I’m sure your website needs to have a new interview with some product that has nothing to do with climbing holds or routesetting. Or perhaps climbingshoereview.com needs some new review about high performance climbing shoes that are being tested on your woodpile.
That’s interesting you say you were an “RS.” Where did you do the “RSing" by the way? When did they fire you? Just because you spin a wrench on your box of wood does NOT mean that you have some type of wisdom or expertise in this field. You and your friends set for “…(y)ourselves, not for anybody else…” and that is the problem. If that is all you did, then great, good for you. My point is that you don’t set commercially or for competitions (the user groups for which this website is targeted and all the old articles were about) and you don’t have anything to teach whatsoever. Just because you have a website called climbingholdreview.com and somehow you’ve duped hold companies into sending you free holds does not mean that you should actually try to teach or review. I mean, I could have a website called http://www.iamapornstar.com, but that doesn’t mean that I am, in fact, a porn star. And I sure as hell wouldn’t create a video about how to make porn. Why? BECAUSE I AM NOT A PORN STAR!
And by the way, “play”ing on 12’s = 5.11 climber. “working” on v6 = v3 climber. I guess you kind of just proved me right. Unless, of course, by “play” you mean routinely redpoint and flash 5.12 and v6. Is that what you mean? I don’t have anything against amateur climbers, they climb my routes all the time. I do have something against amateurs presenting themselves as being professional or a credible source of information.
You’re right, I should step up and create some how to videos of my own, but then, I’m not claiming to be an expert. And I just don’t have the time or desire to do so. Do you really think that, because you make films of the Tour De Bloc events, you are qualified to evaluate the quality or usability of holds in a competition? Really? And I do “chuck in a screw” to a Teknik hold – because I know what I am doing. I don’t do that with hold companies with lower quality urethane. I would just think that an expert such as yourself would have analyzed the quality of the actual materials and had a good grasp of what each company’s product is capable of.
I think it’s obvious that you’ve taken me a little more seriously than you say. I will correct you when you’re wrong, that much is obvious. Are you really stupid enough to think that your feedback for hold companies holds more weight than people that are actually purchasing the holds? Don’t you think that the buyers are quick to tell the seller if the product is not up to industry standards, regardless of who is actually manufacturing?
And Project holds have no issues? Really? Vanilla Gorilla had something different to say last month: “Just a heads up to those who ordered from project recently keep an eye on those washers every hold in our order has this issue .The washers inside diameter is too big and the washers bocome offset to the hole causing the bolt to sit half on washer half on polyeurethane. With some use the bolts dig into the hold and gouge out the hole where the washer does not meet the bolt causing the hold to come loose and to be useless and dangerous. Or perhaps you’d like to address D.Style’s comments: “The majority of the holds my gym received from their hold of the month program in recent months have broken, including the full set of 2XL cubes.” It sure seems like they’re having problems with their orders.
I am glad you are so much an insider that you know about new holds coming out. OOOHHHH, it’s so cool that you know that someone is molding some tufas to be released in mid-november, you’re so cool because you know that. Is it Metolius? Oooh, ooh, tell me please. I haven’t seen any Metolius since I ordered those tufas years ago and they came broken in the box.
About Metolius, thank you SOOOOOO MUCH for sending an email to them. I am sure they will move their manufacturing from China back to the US to improve the quality, but I’ll never know because I generally don’t buy resin holds. They chip, they break, and they are typically just unpleasant to climb on. But you wouldn’t know that because you’re not an “RS”.
Sincerely,
Gayholdreview
p.s: Okay, I’ll design you a great home wall for training and routesetting - it’s called a 45 degree woodie. Do you think I should now start a website called http://www.gayclimbingwalldesign.com?
Quick, someone call Jerry Bruckheimer, this forum has all the spicy parts that everyone wants to see.
“The REAL Routesetters” or “You’ve got Setting talent”
Maybe that was a bad joke??! I’m not trying to poke my nose into other people’s business, however I (as many others are), am sitting here scratching my head, thinking… “these guys are taking this way to seriously”, and then my next thought is, “wait a minute, these guys aren’t taking this seriously at all”.
I mean throwing flagrant comments back and forth about such an important component of our industry is rather concerning. I do see that there are two sides to this coin and understand that both require contrast. However one saying that one isn’t doing enough and the other trying to defend by saying that they’re doing something rather than nothing, is quiet absurd.
I think what “Noodles” aka “climbingholdreview” is doing is a step in the right direction. I think “Gayholdreview” guy is, in his own way trying to encourage the advancement of hold reviews on a professional level, but maybe going about it the wrong way. HOWEVER this is not productive!!!
AGAIN Im not trying to get my nose in anywhere, but let’s at least agree to keep this at a professional level. This is a free open and public forum, however (and Im sure admin will agree) that if this is not productive to the cause of the mission, this will be deleted.
Wow. It's been a while since folks have sunk so low.
My 2-cents: If you wanna sling insults at least have the balls to do it in person or sign your real name. It's too easy, and WAY beneath what this site originally set out to do, to do otherwise.
Well said Molly...
weird.
anyway.......
as a feature I want to see an icosahedron (geometric volume made of 20 triangles) cut in half and made up of various textures (dual-tex, regular, ripples, etc) on each of the panels.
speaking of, there seems to be a lack of simple geometric shapes out there. The one set we have from SoILL is popular with the setters, and I don't know of any other companies having something similar. you could mix them up with different sides having dual-tex, etc.
I'm going to also double up the Tufa comment. I want a bunch for our roofs. I'm guessing their hard to construct with urethane due to the amount of leverage they generate.
ahhh... constructive feedback. How nice. Thanks!
Donovan, Molly, and Louie -
Your views are much appreciated. I apologize to each of you if it was too offensive.
I guess that part of my opinion about climbingholdreview goes back to when routesetter.com was full of great articles and interviews by and with professional routesetters like Molly and Louie.
Now, we have this imposter (climbingholdreview) and it seems as though the content level has taken a BIG step down in quality from the people that I would consider to be knowledgeable about the subject matter. It really does seem to me that he doesn't know anything about routesetting or climbing holds and it frustrates the shit out of me.
Am I the only person out there that feels this way??!!
Since the topic of Tufas has come up again and the original post question was about shapes, if anyone is interested, e-Grips has an amazing new Myorcan TufaPinch that was just released as part of First Dibs. Many setters out there have probably already gotten it so I'd welcome any comments or feedback. There will be a much larger, more positive steep wall TufaPinch from e-Grips in 2011. There are no images on the website as of yet, but the shape was used in the recent Nor'easter comp if anyone saw that. Or if anyone would like to see a picture of the hold, feel free to contact me.
Gay... No offense taken. I also think the overall content here has taken a dip, and I long for the consistent quality of the old site. Hopefully we can get back to that.
Not certain which Tufa set(s) Jeremy is talking about, but I did do a pretty extensive set for Climb It that is almost in production (1 more week for hollowbacks?). They turned out nice and cover smalls up to a big 4XL or 5XL feature, with slopey and postive versions. They're worth checking out if you get the chance.
I'm a big fan of the e-Grips sets too, and am happy to hear that they're supplementing the original holds with some larger ones. Hope that trend continues within other sets from their line.
As for the original post: I think DRCC does dual-tex better than anyone else at the moment. I'd like to see them capitalize on that and do more of it. Maybe a big ledge/shelf feature (along the lines of the old Stone Age Porta-Ledge shape I did). It was great for ultra steep terrain and I don't think there's anything like it currently available. In fact maybe a slopey, flat and positive version? I'm thinking these should be a=on a pretty large scale (3 or 4XL at least).
By the way Vince, I like the direction the company seems to be taking and I'm looking forward to seeing (and setting with) the new shapes.
Allow me to clarify my tufa comment. We'd love some tufa stalagtites/columns for our roofs. Like those tufa columns found in Mono lake but upside down and hanging from our roof.
a shape made specifically for knee barring on very steep terrain.. i've used soill's huge nose for this with decent results, but it's finnicky.
also-- the shallowest screw-on jibs possible, for those of us with lots of 90 degree outside corners in our walls. when I want to add just a tiny bit of bite to the edge of the wall, it's hard to find a chip that's bad enough.
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