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Started 2 years ago by Donovan Craig
Latest reply from Vincent

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Donovan Craig
Member

Did you learn to set routes?

For those of you who set on a regular basis and consider yourselves routesetters, how did you come about this knowledge and progress to the point at which you are now?

The reason I ask is simply because I have never attended any of the Clinics that Molly mentions, not for any reason other than scheduling. I just have not had the luxury of time and financing. Nonetheless I figured that there are many in the same pool as me who feel that even though they have never had any formal training in the matter, they can still put out a good quality route. I also feel that many facilities are "happy" with what they're doing and do not see the benefit of such mentioned clinics. And so we put the cart before the horse.

But this is, I'm sure, one of the many dilemmas facing USAC today. If we dont have great routesetting then are we really helping the progression of the sport or the individuals themselves? I know personally that the only thing a competitor at a local comp remembers is that one route that was just so sweet and they actually managed to complete it! This to me is what separates one competition from another, regardless of facilities, prizes etc. USAC can put on as many clinics as they possibly can, but if everyone is "happy" with what they're doing then where does the demand for better setting come from?

In an ideal world it comes from the climbers at the gyms. Yet as I'm sure we'll all agree that 50%(or more) of gym climbers climb in the 5.11 range(random stat pulled from my head!). Therefore their understanding and expectations are directly proportionate to their climbing level. So back to square one where we are only learning how to set great quality routes for the elite climbers at competitions, who are the minority.

Well then in order to have better setters we must have better climbers, is that what Im saying? Obviously we cant expect a bunch of Ondra's to come walking into our gyms all of a sudden. So if I may use this analogy , in horse back riding a good horse will teach a rider how to ride correctly (if the horse is well trained). Therefore we need well trained setters to teach climbers how to climb properly.

So I come back to my original question of "How did you learn to set routes?" Its not so much of a black and white question as it is a question of self improvement for the progression of the sport. If you know what it took to get you as a setter to where you are today, could that information influence the setters of the future? Could we build a foundation of knowledge for others to use, or will they have to seek it out just as we did? I think all in all, we need to remember that it is only by the transfer of information from generation to generation that we can build upon the past to create a better future.

I'd be very interested to hear about your path to routesetting and comments about the future.

Posted 2 years ago #
acorneau
Member

I started setting with no real instruction, sticking with 5.7's to 9's at first. I watched other people climb my routes and talked to them about what they liked and what they didn't like. I set some new climbs with the feedback in my mind, and then set some more. Stumbled on RouteSetter.com a while back and read all the back threads.

More setting, more watching, more listening to climbers, more setting. Threw in a few new ideas, made some cool stuff, occasionally made some not-so-good ones. Set, watch, listen, set... Set, watch, listen, set.

I'm only part-time at the gym, I teach classes Wednesday evenings and work a shift on Sundays. (I gots me a day jorb.) A few years ago they put me on full-time setting on my Sunday shift and I feel like I'm getting better every day. I get a lot of good feedback from folks and I try new things to see what works and what doesn't.

I seem to go through some setting phases. Right now I'm in a phase where the climb looks to have a lot of holds but a lot of them are small/crappy/feet, so you have to do a bit of searching to find the better holds to hang on to, much like an outdoor climb. I'm sure I'll move into a new phase in a few months or so, but it all really just adds to the repertoire of moves.

Maybe some day I'll attend a clinic, and I wouldn't mind setting for some other comps, but it doesn't seem to be worth it money- or time-wise and the comps seem to have an elitist mentality (must climb 5.37's to qualify for the intern position, etc.). Oh well.

Posted 2 years ago #
acollins
Member

Personally I, like Acorneau, believe that the best person to learn how to set from is the audience one is setting for. After all route setting (at least commercially) is about pleasing the customer. The difficult part for me is applying the feedback from customers to the routes I set. Every customer likes something different out of a route. Many like the fact that the route is very difficult for them and will give them a true workout. Others however seem to like routes that are fun but not very challenging. Sometimes a mixture of both. Usually what I find from speaking with customers is that they just need variety.

When I first started setting I learned from a number of co-workers (including Donovan) and the gym owner. I would'nt say that I have adopted one persons particullar setting style but instead I have tried to combine them all as best I could. There are atributes in everyones route. I feel as if I can master the atributes of each setter I meet then I will eventually gain enough knowledge to be the ultimate threat.

As far as clinics and classes, I would love to one day take one. Working under Molly or Chris would be amazing but I am not intrested in learning the right and wrong way to set a route. Instead I would like to work with them to gain their knowledge and experience. It sure is expensive though.

Posted 2 years ago #
Donovan Craig
Member

Anyone else want to share their story? I think these are cool!

Posted 2 years ago #
Brannon
Member

I learned by coming up from a gym rat, slowly given more responsibility over time.

It all started by being recognized as more then just a hang around, hard climber, and member of the gym (I was 18 at the time). I had gotten to know the owner of the gym and a bunch of the setters and staying late after closing with the staff was a regular event. Eventually I was able to strip routes (having wrenches in my hand was a REALLY big deal) and set some very easy routes with some serious oversight, some routes got almost completely re-set/tweeked. The setters I learned from would tear my work apart but I was learning tons.

My graduation came when my gym hosted a comp. I was told point blank "We don't have time to hold you hand...do good work." Over the next couple of days I focused hard on the very small amount of routes I was trusted with and did good work. I was by no means fast.

After the comp I was able to do my own work and learned most tricks through trial and error...how to fix t-nuts, remove spinners, set on overhangs. For a long time I was focused on pleasing my masters and setting as close to their standards as I could. It was several years later when I understood the importance of thinking of the customers.

As I have seen more walls, newer and better holds, worked with other setters, talked to climbers, and learned more techniques I have gone through several "phases" as a setter. I recognize my weaknesses, strengths, patterns that I fall into, and my favorite sequences.

The best part is seeing how much I can learn, teach, and experience with others.

Posted 2 years ago #
RhoadsClimbs
Member

I learned over time. I climbed alot outside and worked in a gym the rest of the time and simply tried to figure out what makes a route "fun" to me. Over the last ten years I have set alot and taught many others how to set. Quality seems to come in the eye of the beholder. They are many different styles of setting and some people tend to like some and dislike others. In my gym I like to allow all styles of setting while responding to my core customers who mostly climb in the 5.8 to 5.10 range and would rather send relatively easily rather then project hard routes. Most of my customers will probably never climb outside, they simply come here for a good workout and social time.

When I first started working in the gym there was a somewhat elitist mentality among the setters that only those who climbed X hard could set and to start setting a person had to really push to get in. When I took over that aspect of the business I let just about anyone who was interested grab a set of holds and start putting them up. Sometimes I was surprised by the results, right off the bat some people set really well. Others I had to work with a bit but eventually most seemed to grasp the concept of what's good and what's bad. As a result I have many setters and therefore a large variety of setting that seems to please just about all the customers I have.

The point: A good route-setter learns from experience and an ability to accept constructive feedback from the people who climb their routes.

Posted 2 years ago #
Vincent
Member

Back in 1990 somethin' my bro built a 20' wall in his backyard. We played around a little bit, made some rudimentary holds, cracks, and what not.

Several years later ('93/'94) we built a climbing gym. One of, if not the biggest in the US at the time. And then built and opened another one in early 2000 (twice as big as the first). Of course we set tons of routes over the years. I was the Wall Manager for several of those years.

I've set routes and worked at just about every comp at the gyms here and a few elsewhere. Including with the ASCF, JCCA, USCCA, EBS, ABS, and USAC. (used to be USAC certified but haven't renewed. Your torch now :-) Countless local comps, bunches of regionals, and a few nationals. Many of those I was head setter and some I was also the organizer. In more recent years I've also been the DJ too. B-) I've attended every route setting clinic we've ever hosted, including with Didier and Robyn Erbesfield-Raboutou, Steve shipoopi Schneider, Tony Yaniro, and Timmy Fairfield. I've organized and given about 6 of my own route setting clinics.

Now I make climbing holds with The DRCC. I still set routes a few times a month for product testing and I'm always ready to help out for any comps here at our gyms. However our crew has proven themselves more than capable! I still get in there and help out though. Maybe fab up some special features here and there, forerun, paint, whatever.

My favorite color today is dark blue and I like long steep approaches.

Posted 2 years ago #
helen
Member

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