Hey everyone,
Currently we grade our blocs with the vermin scale (V0-V16...)
I know a lot of people use a beginner intermediate advance scale, something like that.
I want to know what everyone uses at there gym and why?
We are thinking about making a switch and I just need a decent pros and cons list.
Thanks
Kaleb
My post from a previous post.
We list out our local classic outdoor boulder problems within our local bouldering areas at each grade. Those are then used as the benchmarks for grading. Every routesetter is expected to have outdoor climbing experience. Grades are placed on the card with a whole number (ex V4) and spaced is reserved to edit (+/-) that grade after the other setters and core members climb the problem.
We also agree a little perceived sandbagging actually keeps our grades more honest.
One of my biggest pet peeve's is the home brewed grading system. One, it's a hassle for visiting climbers. Two, I feel it's a disservice to new climbers to not educate them to the widely universal system of grading. The idea that I can pick up a magazine, see a route, read it's grade, and I immediately have an idea whether or not I may be able to climb it is a great asset to have.
I am on the other side of the fence from smoke.
When I first started getting good at setting I had epiphany regarding how gym climbing is truly a different sport then anything outdoors. We give YDS ratings for long routes and V-Grades for boulders. Why not rate with a different system in the gym?
I really like having an arbitrary, gym specific rating system. A EASY/MOD/HARD system I worked with years ago was one of the easiest to deal with. There were far fewer complaints and negative comments about ratings. The route setters all became intimately familiar with "their" system and worked towards keeping the ratings consistent within the gym AND relative to local grades. Posting a ratings comparison with YDS, V, and our system worked well considering the relative vagueness of our ratings.
There are so many birthday parties and casual climbers (only come a few times a year...usually with a group of friends) who are at best confused by Vthis and 5.that and at worst intimidated by something they don't understand yet seems to be obvious to everyone else. Speaking a common language with the public will encourage participation. Eventually newer climbers will learn "real" ratings through the natural process that goes along with learning the intricacies of a new sport/activity. Any visting climbers will get a feel for the ratings as they warm up and check out the gym...The same things happens anyway.
But in the end, it really doesn't matter. Do whatever you want to do. There are those of us that actually have a stronger then normal opinion on this....most folks don't. If someone tells me my ratings are wack but my setting is great...I'm a happy guy.
Just a final thought: Whatever you choose for your system in your gym, just write "ish" at the end of the rating. No one will ever have the right to complain.
Running 5 miles on the treadmill does not equate to running 5 miles on the road, they are similar yet very different. However 5 miles is 5 miles regardless of who you are or where you are. Could you imagine if treadmills were calculated differently to the real thing?
Think about it... ?
So following that logic Donovan, an 80 foot friction slab, a 120 foot splitter, and a 40 foot overhang can all be easily compared because they are all climbing, and climbing is climbing, not matter where it's done.
Climbing grades are subjective, not empirical. It sucks, but it's not going to change anytime soon. I'm all for not grading anything and letting people sort it out for themselves. However some customers get really pissy when you do that because they can't stroke their ego as much.
Here we use YDS for routes, and we let the customers vote on the grades. Then we use a color coded circuit system for problems, where each circuit covers 2 Vermin grades (V0-V1 is one level, V2-V3 is another, etc.).
Im based in the uk, so we have some centres use V grades, some use Font, and for some strange reason some even use the British Tech grades. I feel that what ever system you use, as long as its the same thru out the centre it shouldn't make much differance.
If you asked me personnal which system I would use, it would be Font everytime as it is easy enough for us to hop in the car and be in FontaineBleau in 3 or so hours to compare levels if need be.
I have set and climbed at gyms a-plenty where they've used the V-grading system, the category style (easy/medium/hard or R/I/A/O), and a few even leaves their problems ungraded. I'm not going to go into what works better because there are obviously pros and cons for all. What it really comes down to is subjectivity and ego-stroking, and realize that you can't make everyone happy. With that said, this is what I experimented with and worked best.
After problems are set, the boulder problems are tagged in categories of R, I, A, O (Recreational, Intermediate, Advanced, Open). On the card also in the upper right-hand corner is a section for "suggested grade", the keyword there be "suggested". Once the boulder problems are tagged and categorized, I leave the problems ungraded for a few days to get a better consensus from locals. After that, I then grade it to as close to an accurate grade as possible.
This works well because by categorizing the problems first without grading it, it gives your climbers a general idea in terms of difficulty, and motivation to actually try out the problem without having to worry about and fight with numbers (you'll be surprised how many people are shyed away from even trying out new problems by simply looking at the V-grade). And by putting a grade in the "suggested grade" box a few days later, it solidifies the problem so to speak, giving those that want a more definite number on the grade an answer. Also, by putting it as a "suggested grade", it still leaves room for subjectivity (and put off any grade-chasing douchebags) - hardly anyone is going to argue over a "suggested grade".
@Zero Cool (<- very original! I love that movie too but really?)
I think you missed my point. Im not saying that all climbs are gradable by the same system, just that what we do in training, should translate to what we do out on the field.
Just the same way, you cannot tell me that running 5miles on a treadmill is the same as running 5miles on the road. But at the very least if you have never run before you would have a general idea of what it would feel like if you were to run 5miles out on the road.
Telling someone that this gym route is rated "I" for intermediate means nothing to them once they get to a boulder outside. At the very least we could help our newer climbers understand what it might feel like if they were to try and climb a V7 or 5.10b or 7c+ outside. Thats why I think its important to carry the system inside, so that it translates to "on the field".
Am I wrong? Show me another sport where in practice they use a different system and or practice with something completely different?
Zero, Im not dogging on you specifically, dont take me the wrong way. But I do think that we are not doing justice to our sport by confusing new, would be, potential climbers.
peace...Lord Nikon!
Ha, thanks. My old boss gave me the nickname after he found out I had studied programing in college.
The main reason I don't have a problem with the in gym systems is that we currently have 4+ systems for grading routes outside, and a couple for boulder problems too. So as long as the gym provides a chart showing the approximate correlation, I don't see a problem with it. Think of it as converting meters to feet or vise versa.
Also, I've seen a lot of people try to move from the gym to outside and get destroyed on grades they hike in a sandbagged gym. Inside may have been designed to be a training ground for outside, but it has become it's own entity. This became clear to me after I tore my labrum and for months could barely climb 5.10b in a gym, but continued to regain strength outside and was able to get on 5.12c again.
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