How hard could it be... right??? « Routesetter.com Forum

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How hard could it be... right???

(22 posts) (9 voices)

Started 3 weeks ago by Cranky
Latest reply from bipolardiscs

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Cranky
Member

tongue in cheek of course.

The price of buying big holds like jugs and then shipping them is so high that I wonder how hard it would be to make a shape or two to mold and then pour just to use in the gym. No intention of being a company, and making complex designs, just a basic jug which can be reproduced for easy routes.

Please point out why this is terrible idea, (including toxicity of fumes and a vast inexperience) or if it is not that hard to do, let me know about your experiences.

thanks
Cranky

Posted 3 weeks ago #
Vincent
Member

It can be done.
The drawback however would be that in order to cover the costs of dev and production, you'd have to make at least a hundred of each shape. That can get lame fast!
You could design the mold so that it is somewhat formable to vary the shapes but that is a bit trickier than you'd imagine. You won't find to many variations that'll work so well as the original shape.
If you've got some extra money it's an interesting project to try.

Posted 3 weeks ago #
GeorgeR
Member

Depends on what you want to make it out of. If you use a cheap resin it might no be a terrible idea but the holds wont last very long. Making the mold will make or break the project, if you don't do it right on something big it can cost you more than just buying something. Making holds is fun, but start small so mistakes don't cost much.

How big are you thinking and what do you want it made out of????

Posted 3 weeks ago #
Cranky
Member

I am thinking polyurathane if it is less toxic than regular resin, and can find in around. I am not looking to ship the holds. I want to use them in the gyms I set in so there would be no shipping. I agree that 100 holds that are exactly the same might get old but spread out among 130 routes it may be ok. Anyone have some resources in terms of videos or companies to try for the mold and the urathane?

Posted 3 weeks ago #
Nold
Member

I have heard that you can take a bucket of semi wet sand, dig a hole as the shape of hold, then fill the hold with your resin. Just a basic idea of course. An idea I have never tried either.

Posted 3 weeks ago #
foamdust
Member

Leave the setting to the Professionals.
Leave the hold making to the Professionals as well.

DZ

Posted 3 weeks ago #
GeorgeR
Member

Polyurethane has its ups and downs, and if you don't know how to properly work with it I can almost guarantee a lot of downs.

Listen to Foamdust I think he's been down this road.

Posted 3 weeks ago #
foamdust
Member

I'm just really baffled by people who think that making holds is just taking a chunk of foam, forming a jug, getting a mold of it, then cast a million parts.

Would you make your own surfboard because you didn't want to spend the money on a decent one ( which wont last forever and you'll have to buy another someday anyway )

Or sew your own parka because Arc'teryx is a little spendy for just a waterproof "sweater" that you could probably make yourself.

Just realize that certain things cost money for a reason. Quality of goods, time and effort spent in engineering these products, etc.

What makes you think that you can make a decent product just because you found all of the "tools" needed to do so.

Ever try to make wine? I wouldn't dare even though I'm pretty sure I could get my hands on most of the stuff needed to do so.

Keep the industry alive, support hold companies. Or else throw your hat in the ring and start your own company.

DZ

Posted 3 weeks ago #
acorneau
Member

Ease up there, Foamy.

Like you with hold making, I work in a creative-based micro-industry where all the tools are becoming easily available to anyone with a willingness to seek them out. It seems like every Bubba and his dog is trying to learn in a couple of hours (or have a piece of software do for them) what I've spent the last 12 years practicing full time.

Just let it go and don't worry about the people who want to try it out. They'll either figure out that what they can do on their own isn't commercial-grade but is good enough for themselves -OR- that they really can't do as good a job as the Big Boys and will pay their money for the real deal.

Either way it's not worth getting worked up about it.

Posted 3 weeks ago #
Nold
Member

Bottom line holds are expensive. People are just looking to try and get holds at a cheaper price. Acorneau put it perfectly. The people trying to make their own holds are probably making them for their own woodys and quality isn't a huge issue. Anything that will support their weight will work.

Posted 3 weeks ago #
Cranky
Member

The reason I began to look into making holds is not complicated. a. once you have been a setter and climber for a while it is only natural to be curious about other aspects of setting including shaping. b. The cost of holds that are big enough to use in roofs and as matchable jugs is very high on a per-hold basis especially with the shipping. I hate to pay $15-$30 per hold for jugs that we need for beginner routes. Producing a set of jugs in house would not change the fact the we order holds from at least a half dozen companies on a regular basis. It just means we spend more money on nice features, and the sweet premium holds that I do not pretend to have the ability to make. If people have advice on how to do it, great. If people don't want to help, no problem. If someone decides to have a stoke about it, good luck.

btw I have made both beer and wine. Beer was good, wine sucked but the experience is always worthwhile.

Cheers
Cranky.

Posted 3 weeks ago #
Vincent
Member

I like beer! And two handed jugs. :-)

Consider also... You will have to pay to have the materials shipped to you anyway. And the weight of the materials required to make the holds is more than the weight of the holds themselves. :-0

Posted 2 weeks ago #
jesse
Member

I just started molding and casting holds about a 2 weeks ago with my first casted holds 1 week ago. i shaped a little over the last 6 months after i purchased my hold making material from a website. all the info i got on how to do this was from this website http://www.makehandholds.com and they give all the tutorials, volume calculator, and products you need to get started. they use a non toxic and virtually odorless urethane but you still wear a mask to keep fumes out of your respiratory system. it is easy and fun, get some green floral foam from walmart and start shaping. I hope this helps.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Vincent
Member

Making climbing holds imho...
It isn't hard to do...
but it sure isn't easy to do it well.
I encourage you to try it because it is cool and fun!
And I think you'll come to appreciate even more, the work of others who make holds as a profession... a.k.a. the "professionals"

The methods on that site are not a bad starting point, but there are quite a few ways they can be improved upon.
Especially if you plan on doing it to save money. ;-)

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Vincent
Member

"two handed jugs" ... lol

Posted 2 weeks ago #
foamdust
Member

It isn't brain surgery, for sure.

I guess I liken this to building a nice gym, then trying to cheese out and not hire professional setters to save money. The owner thinks they can do it, so why hire setters?

Home made holds will look, home made. If my gym members were paying a premium to climb / workout there, I think they should have nice looking holds to climb on.

DZ

P.S. - Please keep all of your receipts from your shaping / molding / casting endeavors and then see how many holds you could have purchased for the money. You might be surprised. ( Also track your hours, and give yourself a nice hourly too! )

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Cranky
Member

Foam and Vincent, you are probably right. By the time I get done ordering, shaping, and screwing things up, I will have a lot of time and money spent on mediocre holds at best. It's just something I always want to try.

Consider it on my hold bucket list.

LOL

Posted 2 weeks ago #
jesse
Member

it is fun for sure but in the beginning it is costly. if your doing it for fun who cares, but to start a business than expect to put in some serious hours in perfecting the art of shaping holds. my hat goes off to all professional shapers, i am artistically challenged so the basic shapes i made were difficult for me, but the stuff thats on the market is incredible.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Sander
Member

Jesse,
Im looking forward to seeing your work. maybe some shaping lessons are in order.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
jesse
Member

Sander,
Ya dude for sure that would be sweet! when is a good time?

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Sander
Member

I will be there tonight climbing.
sander@epusa.com

Posted 2 weeks ago #
bipolardiscs
Member

it is really easy to do. go to allumilite.com. you can order the silicone, and resin there. plus all the videos will walk you through the process. a few hundred bucks and you are off and running. and yes, you can buy a lot of other holds for that money. BUT, where is the sense of satisfaction in that? isnt this sport about pushing yourself, doing things you didnt think you could do, and looking back saying, yeah, I DID THAT!

Posted 1 week ago #

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