I get 8 per hour...+5 for a 25ft. tope rope. 3 for a boulder problem. sad.....
How much do you get payed?
(94 posts) (25 voices)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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Is that $5 for a top rope or $8 per hour + $5? We pay our setters $25 per route and $12 per boulder problem. A lot of other gyms in the area pay a similar amount. Where abouts is the gym you set at?
Posted 1 year ago # -
I get paid 10.75 per hour.
But... My title is head route setter, but i get paid that for all my regular hours in which i clean, use cash, take bookings, set and strip routes, teach belay lessons....I get paid 15$ per hour for teaching technique, advance belay and lead courses, as well as guiding.
Im really happy to see this forum, I might talk to the boss about a nominal fee for route-setting. all the people we employ do the same general staff duties but only two of us really have motivation to set, and we do a good job keeping the routes fresh, but I believe a cash incentive might help A lot to get some of the newer people setting.
Thanks guys.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'm only part-time at the gym setting on Sundays and teaching classes on certain Wednesday nights. I get $7.50/hr. while setting and $15/hr. while teaching.
While the extra income and free climbing are nice, I do it because I like to.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I assume that if you are paid by the hour to set that you feel no need to rush. If I set three or four routes in four hours that does not end up as a very good rate. Do managers bust your chops to get the routes done fast? We pay a flat rate per route or problem. How long it takes is up the individual.
Cranky
Posted 1 year ago # -
8 per hour +5 for every route.... No rush as I work the floor @ the same time...= slowest setter in N.C.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Cranky: if you were asking me, I usually strip 3-4 routes and get 3 or 4 up in a 6 hour shift.
I am not rushed by the managers because they know that I put up quality routes that people like and I'm much better at getting work done than most of the other staff.
Posted 1 year ago # -
It bothers me that people get paid more for working the floor than for setting.
The routes are the product that the gym is selling; it requires much more than a modicum of skill and experience, and without consistant quality and diversity (esp. in a muti-gym market) customers will find other outlets for their fitness / training / social experiences.
It seems like people are being paid as if setting is just an extra job to get done at the gym and not the main reason for its existance.
It also seems that I am most fortunate that my employer understands that good, consistant, quality setting is a (the?) way to increase profits and keep clientel.
I've been setting consistantly (i.e. daily) for the past 12 years and am paid a livable salary of about 30k per year.
This is a profession, and a highly skilled craft. It needs to be invested in by employers. We have USAC level 2 & 3 setters on staff as well as well supervised intern (newer) and journeymen (multiple years in the game) setters.
Setters---
Do what you do, do it a lot, learn more, get certified, and make yourselves invaluable to the operation of your gym.This is more than just a side job for the enthusiastic, it is the cornerstone of the indoor climbing industry.
rant, rant,
GPosted 1 year ago # -
Greg, I couldn't agree with you more. I feel extremely fortunate that I get paid well to do a job I love and I constantly work hard at it to improve and grow as a setter. Like you said, this is a profession and one that you can't just walk in off the street and do well. Anyone can turn wrenches, but not everyone can create enjoyable climbs. As gyms get bigger and better and the sport grows, we will start to see more and more certifications and courses for setting and people who will want to start treating it more like a profession than a "thing to do for free climbing".
If you love what you do and are good at it, don't let yourselves get taken advantage of and earn less than what you're worth.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I get paid 9.75 which is the base pay. I set maybe 20% of the boulder problems but its all done during slow shifts with no increase in pay. An incentive program seems like a great idea. One problem though is we have some crap that gets put up so do you do a probation period for a setter?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Dr3wst3r, generally the head route setter works with all the other setters, offers critiques and suggestions and doesn't allow crap to go up. A probation period is a good thing though as it allows you to see if new setters are a good fit and if they take suggestions and criticism well.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I figured we are a new college gym and have had some growing pains, luckily we have a few passionate setters/workers that have carried alot of weight.
oh if i were boss........
Posted 1 year ago # -
$8.00 for me. I am lucky to have a job where I can use my creativity, meet awesome people and most importantly to me, have fun while I work. Don't get me wrong, $20 and hour would be cool but I love what I do and I get paid for it. Pretty good gig in my book.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ok this is bullshit! I know you love what you do and if you found a job that you love you'd never work a day in your life, yada yada yada! I know, trust me I know! But....
Let's be realistic here, you (the routesetter) have a specific set of skills that to be honest very few have. Putting holds on the wall might equate to bussing tables. Putting holds on a wall in sequence might equate to waiting a table. But being educated either by experience or professional coaching makes you a chef! You're not just serving the food, you're adding the flavour to an otherwise bland F grade piece of steak!!!
Look I know probably many of yo don't have much experience, say less than 2 years and probably many of you have not been to a clinic or being coached on routesetting. And in that case I can understand your employer trying to bargin with you and justly so. However think of it this way, even if you are inexperienced at setting, is there a lone out the door of people trying to take your place? If you weren't there wold the holds make it to the wall at all? There certainly is a compensation that is agreeable at the level that you're setting but I can go and wait a table and make $8/hour! Granted it's not what I love to do but that is negligable in this situation because I have a set of skills you need!!!
In turn those setters that don't have experince, go out there and get it. Make the drive to the neighboring state and learn something. Pay up and take a clinic. Only by improving yourself will you're employer be more willing to fork over the wages. But in the end it's worth it! Inwhat other industry do you find a special craft/skill being so undervalued as this? I'm telling you that we can all be better at what we do if we decide not to follow the general trend of "I'm a badass pay me". Be better than that and step up to the plate.
I know half of you could do a better job if you just tried. Do a better tape job, clean up properly, sort your bolts and your holds, be proactive in earning that compensation! Please, when you put holds on that wall you say something about yourself and the rest of us as setters!
And finally, if you can't make fillet minon, then just do the best you can, and don't settle for payment in fresh fish!!!
Posted 1 year ago # -
"In what other industry do you find a special craft/skill being so undervalued as this?"
In my "day job" I'm a Mastering Engineer (basically a specialized form of audio engineer, look it up). All the studio engineers, producers and professional musicians that I know make a menial living in the music industry. (You'd probably laugh at what I make a year.)
Low income, no benefits, but awesome experiences and incredible skills. You have to love what you do to do this kind of job.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Before crying foul, I might also ask how much money the gym actually brings in. I honestly don't know how lucractive owning a climbing gym is, but at the University gyms in which I have worked, we're usually just breaking even. In commercial gyms, are the owners/management making $100K? More? Less?
For comparison, one might look at post-doctoral researchers in the sciences. These folks have PhDs and highly specialized knowledge, but they typically make $35K per year. At 50 hours per work, that's $13 per hour. Granted, they are (generally) not working in a commercial setting, but the principal is the same: the money has to come from somewhere, and there's only so much to go around.
Posted 1 year ago # -
LoneWolfe: Im not crying wolf, just calling a foul!
First lets compare apples to apples. Thats why I pointed out the waiter/chef scenario.
You're talking about someone who works fulltime with benefits. If you include the whole package ontop of a $35K salary you probably end up in the range of about $38-$40K per year. Now I dont know how many fulltime routesetters there are out there, but Im lead to believe that its maybe 1 out of 75?????? Therefore everyone else is part time. Lets try to find a comparable part time gig and then do a better comparison. What that is, Im not completely sure, but I'll think about it.I just wanted to point out that routesetters are trade, skilled personal and should be compensated accordingly.
I would very much like to get to the bottom of this, because I feel that with an organization like USAC, we could possibly set some bench mark criteria, where gym owners could see the value that the setter brings to the table. I think there are many facilities that could use this help as they dont really know where they stand when it comes to compensation of someone that we cannot define!!!!!!!
This is good dialog and I would encourage setters and owners alike to chime in.
THanks for the opportunity!
Posted 1 year ago # -
As a gym manager and head route-setter I think I add some good points here:
-Pay is relative to quite a few things such as where the gym is located, how profitable the gym is, a persons experience and the goals of the gym. You can bet up to a 20% deviation in pay based on just these factors alone.
-Some gyms don't really need technical route setting, their aim isn't climbers it's kids or whatever pays the bills. Therefore they can get away with paying less for less quality.
-I consider basic route-setters the equivalent of a waiter (~$10/hour). Just about anyone can be taught fairy quickly to set good up to ~5.10. Above that grade the route-setter is worth more, that is were they come to level of chef. Especially if they are doing comp setting, which can go double digits on the V-scale. That type of setting is WAY harder than your average 5.9 jug haul. Unfortunately, I think most gym's business come from climbers who will rarely touch 5.11 meaning high paying positions for setters are few and far between.
-I believe the position of "Head Route Setter" should be a legit and well paid position in the 25k to 45k range depending on cost of living of the gym's location. Route setting is the product. As for the pions who might set a few moderate routes a month there is a line of people who can do that job and therefore the pay will be much lower, $10/hour would be pretty good I think.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Donovan: Anything you can do to get me some better pay is OK in my book!
Rhodes: I don't know what grades you climb personally, but I set a lot of the 5.8's to 5.10's at our gym and I believe that they are truly the meat and potatoes of the gym's product (routes). I can tell you that not just anyone can set a decent 8 or 9 that 8/9 climbers find enjoyable.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Rhodes: considering your location I'm impressed that you consider $10/hour as you can see by others posts there are people in larger metropolitan areas who earn less. All things being equal you wouldn't think that. Hence why I think there should be some sort of guidelines draw up to help managers/owners and setters agree on what they're trying to achieve.
I will agree very much that this must take into account all the various factors and a 20% swing might be the way to do it. Yet we must draw those baselines so that people can understand.Acoreau: it is very satisfying when even a 5.8 climber come down off the wall and says that was one of the best routes that he's climbed. I am certain that these climbers do make up the bulk of our membership base and therefore the question must be asked. Do we throw money at setters to push out great 5.8-5.11 or just push out as many routes as possible? That is for each gym to decide. However I bet those who focus on customer satisfaction win more clients on a monthly basis!
I think the more 5.8 climbers you have saying "dude that was awesome" the better you gym will be and overall a better facility.Now the trick is when someone say "ah 5.8 climber huh, what do they know about climbing? So why should I spend the money?" well I'll tell you... So walk into any weight place and then walk into one with premium pricing. The level of knowledge increases exponentionaly. You might say bench press is bench press, but the seem to make you appreciate their technique for brench press a lot more. So what has happened here? The premium place has just taken a barbel and thrown more money at it than the other places. You may have never pushed weights in your life but you sure aknowlegde the difference and know the outcome is going to be better!!!
So if you apply this principal to all parts of you business great or small surely you'll have a better customer relationship and better customer satisfaction which will lead to customer retention, right!?!?!
It sounds so simple but sometimes you have to read it to see it!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Not sure if I follow the weight training analogy, Donovan. Just throwing around money isn't going to do anything. The best setters are the ones who would do it for free cause they love it so much. But alas, everyone has to make a living so some compensation is in order.
How about this: What would expect a fair wage to be for a full time route-setter? Consider reality please.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think a fair wage for a full-time setter would be 12-15 dollars an hour, plus benefits.By Full-time I mean anything over 35 hr/week... I am a jack of all trades (head setter/coach/run the floor) for only 11 bucks/hr working 378+ hr/wk with out benefits, so I see the point about paying for higher quality work.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Things are starting to get confusing.
The responsibilities of a head route setter go far beyond simply putting high quality climbs onto the wall. Running a route setting program entails being aware of the demands of your community, planning a relevant route distribution both in terms of difficulty and style to meet these demands, managing training and route turnover in a more or less optimal way, and making sure that the whole package allows your local climbing community to learn, improve, and grow. Then there is the possibility for feedback programs, and other additional services. This is certainly a full time job that requires a reasonably varied skill set, but several old discussions pointed out that many a gym owner/manager haven't yet realized what a better route setting program could do for their business.
Now, the discussion about pay for pure route setting is another story. I like Donovan's analogy to a restaurant crew. The natural step that it is missing is the value based incentive system (ignoring that we have been trained to over tip even for bad service at this point). I would like to try a system where setters can receive tips, has anyone done this? Initially it sounds kind of absurd, but the tips don't have to be large, if 20 people tip you a quarter for your route you are already getting a HUGE raise.
Crazy?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Climbers carrying quarters so they can give you a tip? Yeah, I'd call that crazy. :-P A tip system can work well when you pay at the end of your transaction, like at a restaurant, but not so well for a gym.
However, a system where customers mark their preference on a "score card" and the employer pays out bonuses based on customer satisfaction would be workable. It would show the managers which setters are pleasing the customers and which ones are putting up choss.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Tips system is crazy but acorneau has hit the nail on the head. The only problem I foresee is dude with skills gets paid more and therefore can go to more clinics etc. I'm not saying that bonuses should be spread among everyone but rather training should be offered equally regardless of ability. Then that also brings into question the level of quality control because you can't just put up anything and expect climbers to like it. Rght now head routesetters check the work of their apprentices. That might change with this approach! Keep that in mind!
Good ideas. Keep them coming!!!!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Oh yea about the weight gym thing. What I was trying to get at is the most consumers now days are looking for quality and value over convince. Good trainers make good gyms just like good routesetting makes for fun climbing!
Posted 1 year ago # -
One last thing. @ shawd01.... 378 hr/week. Oh shit son when do you sleep ???
Posted 1 year ago # -
37.5...better
Posted 1 year ago # -
Start a Union so ever setter with a USAC certification gets a minium amount of pay. More certifications = Higher pay. I'm sure those guys over at USAC would love to take dues for a setters union.
It's a trade so treat it like one. Setting routes isn't an easy job, it is hard manual labor that should be paid for appropriatly.
Greg Rupp - Better routes more often equal a better member base. At least thats what i have observed from our gyms in the metroplex. Your comments on routesetting are ahead of our time.
Rhoadesclimbs - " Just about anyone can be taught fairy quickly to set good up to ~5.10." Setting isn't for just anyone. You can teach anyone how to float drywall but for them to do it properly takes a good amount of practice.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Texas: I think a union is a bit much at this point in time, however just simple guidelines to offer some suggestion and support to those in the industry will be well received, rather than a routesetters strike just because we’re not getting paid what we think we should.
Taking a proactive step in order to obtain equality will not only be viewed upon as the right thing to do, but ultimately place the setter in a better position to obtain fair compensation.Therefore, if we are just trying to draw a simple baseline on which to base routesetters pay, here is just one example of what I would consider “compensation”
Base pay = State minimum wage $7.25/hr (this is common for most states yet it does vary!)
Years of experience = +$1/hr
Certification = +$1/hr/level of cert (so level 3 = $3/hr increase)
Therefore if I am a routesetter
(A) and I have 2 years of experience and I am a level 1 USAC cert I would earn $10.25/hr.
Conversely if I have
(B) 10 years of experience and Im level 3 USAC, I would earn $20.25/hr .So what does that look like in the grand scheme of things, assuming these setters work 40hr weeks, 52 weeks out of the year,
Setter (A) earns $21,320 per year without including benefits or subsidies for training and or travel (to other events for learning purposes).
Setter (B) earns $42,120 per year.Now those probably look fairly high to most of us, but that’s because they are fulltime positions. I would think that most setters are between the 20-30hour/week mark.
Therefore Setter A @ 20hr/wk earns $10,660/year and @ 30hr/wk earns $15,990/year
And Setter B @ 20hr/wk earns $21,060/year and @ 30hr/wk earns $31,590/yearThese numbers seem very realistic to me.
Now we have all brought up many points to ponder and I’m not entirely sure how they are sprinkled into the mix.
These are “what about head routesetters who do so much more than just a regular setter, schedules, quality control, etc.” – maybe there’s a $1/hr increase for being the head setter?
“what about the guy that wears many hats” – maybe there is a list of incentivized add-on’s that one could incorporate like +$1/hr for each hat that he wears.
I think starting with a baseline and then working up from there is probably the best way to compensate employees, because it puts a monetary value on the skill or experience that the employee brings to his employer.
I know from my experience my salary was basically just a number that my predecessors had carved before me, just by being skilled in various areas. Over many years management was able to say “this sounds reasonable” and at the time I thought so too. It felt a bit like the blind leading the blind and over the years I began to draw my own conclusions. Nevertheless it would be nice to apply this to the entire gym, including birthday party belayers, coaches, front counter staff, routesetters, managers, assistant managers, indoor instructors, outdoor instructors, ‘guides’.
What are your thoughts on the “Value Added” system and what dollar amount would you associate with each one?
Posted 1 year ago #
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