All very good points made! Thanks for burning my arse on the rose move as well, I'll be sure to explain myself in finite detail next time;)
I do love that whatever I put up on this thread is considered seriously, I very much appreciate that people are taking the time to read these long threads and add a new perspective to it. There are no hard feelngs on this thread I think it's just close to out hearts both conciously and economcally, and that's what makes this a great debate!
Louie you bring so much to the table with yor vast knowledge and years of experience, isn't it time for another book???
Greg I feel like just from reading this thread I would like to come and work for you. It sounds like you have a good gig going on there and I'm sure many could learn from you!
As for certifications it is the only way draw a conclusion about something. Although many may not agree with it, it would be the only way we could know whether or not someone has obtained the skills to run a wall. Now setting itself could be something altogether different. Possible the head setter cert could just focus on running the wall and the setting itself could be left to experience? That might work better for most facilities who are very different from one to the other. But we do know that replacing a tnut is pretty standard across the globe, and maybe those are the sorts of things that a cert should focus on.
I guess that is just one part of this whole discussion because as a setter if I knew that there was a course that I could take and my employer would increase my pay based solely on getting that cert, why wouldn't I then strive to get certified. This is how it is in the rest of the service industry, therefore I think it would be a good idea to incorporate something similar.
That might spark more entreprenural opportunities but allowing thoses with a head setter cert (provided they are good setters themselves) to offer their own route setting clinics. Only by sharing knowledge whether for free or by paid opportunity will we increase the overall level of our industy. On a side note I did find a website that offers climbing wall management training. Not sure if it pertains to what we are trying to achieve but I'll look into it more.
I think we have managed to turn this thread into looking at the individual as well as looking at the whole picture. On an individual level there are ways and means for people to increase their knowledge (although beit slim) and now we are also beginning to focus on the setting industry as a whole. However it is only through each individuals effort that we can achieve a concensus as to what would be acceptable across the board. Whether is PPR or hourly it dependant on the facility and what it can sustain. But what every gym needs to figure out, it sounds to me, is who does what, to what level they do it, and how valuable that is to their bottom line.
Ultimately what someone (Louie) needs to do is figure out in today's world what the essentials are to the route setter and how they can apply that to any facility. Once you have everything in one place, uh i dunno say a book, then that could be used as "A setters guide to gyms of the future".
Sorry Louie but you've done it once before and many consider you still very knowledgable in our field, I know I still do!
You could almost write a book from this thread!!!