Do you, a full time route setter, consider yourself a professional? Why, why not? How many setters consider themselves professionals?
Professional Setting
(22 posts) (11 voices)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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Loaded question!
Posted 1 year ago # -
I would say you are a professional if you are being payed to set.
I consider myself a professional because I get payed to set routes, and that is my only job (at the gym).I think there is a difference between being a gym employee who sets when asked to, and a setter where your only job is setting.
As soon as you are receiving income purely for your setting ( somewhat regularly), you are a professional routesetter.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I set nearly every Sunday for 6 hours a day, I get paid, it's my only job while I'm there, I have all my own tools, and I've been doing it for 4-5 years now.
However, I would not consider myself as a "professional" route setter since it's not my main occupation.
If I had to give a label to what I do I would consider myself an "experienced hobbyist".
Posted 1 year ago # -
i will do one better. i am "the" professional route setter.
Posted 1 year ago # -
One of my great teachers would always say.... "a professional is one who does a better than average job EVERY time."
I think that's just what makes a better setter. Who is usually the one getting paid for it anyway. :-)Posted 1 year ago # -
What about certifications with USAC? Does that make someone a professional?
Posted 1 year ago # -
lol @ Texas
Posted 1 year ago # -
@ Aidas: I respectfully disagree and the reason I say that is cause you have minor and major leagues in anything, sport, banking, real estate etc etc... I would rather look at it like this: There are Amatures, Pro Amatures and Pro's. just as in anything that requires a level of skill and intellect. All three of these levels can be paid positions however not all of them are Pro's. I would like to think of myself as a ProAm setter, cause I've set for sometime and have experience setting for redpoint and onsight comps. I do not calculate how much I get paid for this into whether or not I receive a higher "rank" or not, I dont think that has anything to do with it.
Food for thought...
Posted 1 year ago # -
So by the rationale discussed, someone who flips burgers for McD's is a professional burger flipper. Great job.
A professional should be someone who is better that 99% than the rest of the world at their given activity.
Food for thought, if you have not set a professional level event, you are not a professional setter.
If you have not been the HNIC at a masters level/ international invite, you are NOT a professional setter.
If you cant support a family with your income from setting, you are not a professional setter.
Posted 1 year ago # -
sorry joe i dont think that holds weight. thats like saying an investment banker that hasn't been on the board of goldman sachs isnt a professional investment banker. there are tiers of every profession. if you get paid to set as a route setter and this is your full time job then you are a professional. you may not be the best but you still qualify as a professional in my opinion.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Donovan, I agree with you. There are tiers of professional, but I think thats just splitting hairs. Just because you're a professional, doesn't mean your amazing. It may just be circumstances and luck that brought you there. ( hopefully not)
I think the difference between being a pro setter and a pro athlete is that as a setter you're creating a product, but as an athlete- your performance is the product. People can compete in the a pro category and just be really good, and not be a professional. But can someone set for a high level comp and consider themselves a pro even if its not their regular job?Joe- I think your point about a pro being better than others is valid, just a bit exaggerated. A pro setter will likely be better than, or as good as, the available roster of setters in their area.
Kinz- good point about if setting is your full time job. When I said "somewhat regularly" I think I should have said- if setting is your main source of income, I think it's safe to consider yourself a pro.
Posted 1 year ago # -
According to this link, how would you separate the Amateur, Pro-am and Professional setter?
Does anyone know if this is based off of an international program? (IFSC approved?)
Kinz - I don't consider a board member at goldman sachs a professional banker, more like a professional thief.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think the word "Professional" can be taken a couple ways. If we look at it like Joe is, and think of a Pro Setter like a Pro football player then yeah, Joe's thinkin is correct. Anyone can score a full time setting job, that doesn't mean you're a "pro" at it: shit you don't even have to be that good, looking at some of the gyms out there. Only the top few percent can really call themselves "pros" here. The other way I thought about it would be the usage of Professional as in demeaner or the way you present yourself. Im sure a few more setters fall into this category, and I guess here is what Kinz and Aidas were getting at. That you don't actually have to be the best or in the top tier to consider youreself professional.
So my thinking comes down to this, if you set fulltime, and only set (you don't run the counter or any of that mess) you're well organizied and treat the job like a "real" job then you can consider yourself professional. A step up from there would be the guys who set pro level, major USAC and IFSC events regularly.
Posted 1 year ago # -
^^ +1
Posted 1 year ago # -
Websters:
a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs
b : having a particular profession as a permanent career
c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>Posted 1 year ago # -
Thanks for the dictionary insert. I think we can all agree the being professional is not only earning you income solely from your 'profession' but it is also a level of prestige that is obtained. I agree with Joe that just because your income is based on what you do, that doesn't necessary make you a professional, that just makes you an employee in a career!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Is the worst doctor in his field still a professional?
I think you guys are confusing the word. Being a professional is getting paid to do a certain job which enables you to survive. For example buy food, clothes, etc. (end of story)
Now if you want to talk about being elite in your given profession, that's a whole different ball game. Lots of professionals, very few ELITE professionals.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Dale would you agree then that a professional should carry credentials such as a degree or being certified by a governing body? Cause I still don't believe that working for Micky Ds makes you a Pro.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Donovan,
If your "profession" is in the food service industry, and you strive for nothing else but to be the best burger flipper in town, then yes.
Credentials never go along with having a profession, its usually some sort of training though. Now if you want to take burger flipping to the next level and open your own Burger Heaven, then you have now taken that profession and made it more elite. Still a service industry professional, just another level.
Six of one, half dozen of the other.
Put the egos aside guys, if you are setting exclusively and earning your living at it, than your profession is setting. Some are just better at it ( or want to attain more ) and get to the elite level.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The first thing that pops into my head while following this discussion is "why does it really matter?"
Now, I'm not trying to be a smart ass or dismissive but I truly am curious as to what is the importance of being designated "professional?" I understand that getting a certification from a recognized industry leader can be something that others look at as higher status in your profession, but as a college graduate with a degree in Adventure Education I guarantee that my climbing guide training is significantly more exhaustive then an AMGA/PCGI cert yet I have had to get special clearance by company insurance to guide without a special card in my wallet.
And to carry on the burger flipping metaphor...
A guy at McDonalds IS a professional burger flipper. He is held to standards of product quality, proper attire, attendance, and compensated for his time. Clearly this is not an elite position but he is getting paid for it and I'm sure he could share his tips and tricks that make his job easier....things he has learned and applied. Now, a 3 star chef putting out truffle infused Kobe beef on fresh made roll with organic veggies is still just flipping burgers but doing it at a higher level. The guy at McDonalds might not be making enough to support a family but I can think of several professions that don't provide a comfortable living for a family (teachers anyone)
It has been said by others in this discussion that comp setting is a good standard for determining professional status. Comps are when any newer setter gets their training wheels removed and need to set at a professional level...clean, fast, organized, and to the head setters expectations. This is not a time for hand holding...get a few comps under your belt and you are surly on your way to being professional.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Brannon, I think its rather important. Dale is right we do need to set our egos aside, however this is important for all of us as climbing becomes a larger sport. (Think of all the setters that would love to put "Pro Routesetter" on their resumes) As you have seen on this forum there have been great discussions about payrates, certificates and accountability. I think this is another step towards finding the foundations of what a routesetter really is.
I think if the topic was "Expert Setter" we would be having the exact same discussion however instead of it being based on pay, it would have revolved around knowledge. These are all important aspects of being a routesetter and as one topic leads to the other, we in turn get to learn more about the profession we are interested in.
Please continue...
Posted 1 year ago # -
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Posted 9 months ago #
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