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Safety while setting

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Started 1 year ago by Aidas Rygelis
Latest reply from Dan The Man

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Aidas Rygelis
Member

So at work my system for setting usually consists ascending up one rope (grigri + ascender w pulley = 2:1), and having a few asana setters buckets filled with holds attached to a WC ropeman on the rope of the route next to me which are hauled up as I move up. We mainly use T-wrenches which are untethered while setting.
The area at the base of the wall I'm setting is sectioned off with rope to keep people from walking under me.

This system allows me to try sequences while setting easily and move up and down quickly. However it doesn't offer much in the way of avoidance of dropping things.

At the top of the walls, its 60ft to the ground and a wrench, bolt, or god forbid a finishing jug, falling from that height would do some serious damage to someone. And the safety area roped off wouldn't be much good if there was any outward force on whatevers been dropped. I've been fortunate enough to never have dropped a hold or anything, but there are many chances to while setting, especially in the summer when my hands get sweaty. Wrenches get slick, holds get slick.

I've started using a tethered ratchet for setting now which I prefer, but the t-wrench is still common practice. We try and do all the setting early in the day when there are less climbers around, but we're open from 6am-11pm so there is almost always someone at the gym.

So my question is, which method do you employ to keep yourself, and the climbers at your gym safe.
Do you have some complex safety system? or rely on steady hands?

Posted 1 year ago #
acorneau
Member

We use (or at least supposed to use) orange traffic cones around the work zone, however we still get a few kids that don't pay attention or a few dumb-asses that think that it doesn't apply to them.

Rope-wise I use both ends of the regular top rope (climber's end and Grigri on me), tying backup knots every 10' or so.

All my tools are un-tethered and very rarely do I drop something in my hands. I have a small tool pouch i put on my harness that keeps my ratchet, t-wrenches, tap, 20-30 bolts, and other assorted bits and tools.

I use a regular Home Depot bucket tied to the end of the rope I'm on and it gets a small loop of cord (my autoblock cord) girth hitched on the handle. I start setting on a ladder with the holds on the ground, but once I get up on the rope I pull my bucket up to me and hang it close by; either on a good hold or I'll put a martini in an extra hole.

For stripping (which I usually do before setting) I go to the top and hang the bucket between my legs. As I strip I put the hold in the bucket and the bolt in my tool pouch (which I'll then use for setting). If I get any really large holds I'll carefully drop them to the floor (we have tire turf so even large holds get a nice soft bounce it you land them just right!)

Posted 1 year ago #
Herman
Member

Well it all is very simple.

there are two major dangers:
1. stuff dropping onto other people.
2. yourselve dropping to the ground.

1.
We just need to make sure that we as setters can drop anything and nobody will be damaged. Fortunately gravity works down but if a hold hits the wall it can fly of in any direction. In my 15 years experience i've dropped everything. wrenches, bolts, holds, quikdraws, grigri's, buckets full of holds. Once I hit my girlfriend with a bolt against her leg when she was 10 meters below and 15 meters behind me. I've seen modules Falling, ladders dropping. i've witnessed someone swinging with a bucket attached to him. it rained holds and bolts. In my opinion there is no need to ty the t-wrench as you have lots of other stuff that can drop. So the area that needs to be boxed off should be big enough. that is BIG, very big. i would say as much left right and behind you as you are from the ground up.

2a:
Stuff can happen to a grigri. It can slip because of a new rope. something can prevent it from braking (a carabiner on the rope). So we should always to a safety knot under the grigri every couple of meters. I've seen this knot prevent a very nasty fall.

2b:
Professional rope access requires to work with 2 ropes. 1 descender on the main rope and some sort of backup device on the second. Should we do the same? On near verticall walls this can actually be done quite easy and without much hinder, provided you have ther correct tools. In a overhang (where it is needed tyhe most as a lot more is happening) this becomes much less straightforward, and maybe even less safe because of all the stuff that is going on.

2c:
Attach the rope carefully to a fixed point. Attach your grigri carefully. Systematically check everything.

Posted 1 year ago #
Greg Rupp
Member

How about a setting schedule that that starts while there is no one at the gym. Setting from 5am till 11 or noon with wall maintinance after will keep you clear of most of the dropping hazzards.

Posted 1 year ago #
atp
Member

All good points. My drill and wernch have a carabiner attached so i hook them on and off my harness. Also a long runner looped through the tape and attached to my harness keeps it close. The holds i keep in a bucket on a different rope close by, and if I notice people coming near I make it a point to slow myself down(being more carefull)and or depending on the situation may ask them to move away.

Posted 1 year ago #
JV
Member

All good points. I would add that slowing down a bit and not being a spaz 30 feet in the air is a good idea. I'm as guilty as anyone else there...I can get in a hurry and knock a hold off my wrench if I sketch out. I try to be as methodical about things as possible to alleviate that.

Also, don't over-reach or stretch too far to get a hold in. Moving to a different position or even a different rope seems time consuming, but is really not nearly as bad as stripping the one t-nut you want to use or dropping that cherry hold.

If I am setting long routes or 2-3 at the same time, I plant one or two half-full buckets on a couple of hangers for those additional holds that I may need. It also keeps the bucket attached to me lighter which helps me be more mobile on the wall. Plus, over-filling buckets can result in dropped crap while scrounging therein.

Posted 1 year ago #
Brannon
Member

I was always a fan of letting gym staff know that you will be setting. Customers will possibly be oblivious to cones, caution tape, or other markings you use to mark off a setting area. If there is someone at the front desk who can let each person know that "area X and wall Y" are closed for setting, maybe it will sink in more when they actually see the caution tape. Also, other staff can help keep an eye on kids running around and other folks not paying attention.

Posted 1 year ago #
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Posted 1 year ago #
Kaleb Thomas
Member

I have been meaning to post this...

About 3 months ago I had my Gri-Gri fail while fore-running a move on self belay.

The Gri-Gri is only a year old, and in good working condition. I believe the failure happened because my hold bucket was still attached to my belay loop, I tried to make it fail again and it seemed that only with the hold bucket on the belay loop did it tend to slip.

I think that the weight off the bucket pulling on the belay loop causes the Gri-Gri to sit at a weird angle not allowing the locking mechanism to work.

The only two suggestions ill make are:

1) Always!! Always!! Always!! use a stopper knot, or multiple stopper, the ACMG.., the equivalent to the american AMGA? (is that right?), says that you should have one every ten feet, i fell eight feet before my stopper knot caught me, and I was only 5 feet from the ground when i stopper. without that knot i likely would have been hurt.
Or daisy your ascender to your harness so that it acts as a back-up.

2) Try to avoid Fore-Running with Your hold bucket on your belay loop.

Posted 1 year ago #
acorneau
Member

Kaleb,

Glad you're ok. However to get picky, the Grigri did not "fail". You were using it a manner not prescribed by Petzl (like a lot of us do) as Petzl instructs to keep a break hand on the break-side of the rope at all times.

Yes, stopper knots are a good idea. I am guilty of not tying backup knots on occasion and I know I should every time.

Personally, I have had a Grigri not lock up for me in one particular situation: When the climber's-side knot is right up against the Grigri and at just the right height to keep the cam from locking completely. (Not sure if that makes sense to anyone...)

Again, glad you're ok and a good reminder for all of us self-belaying: tie those backup knots!

Posted 1 year ago #
Kaleb Thomas
Member

Ya, your totally right, i used the term gri-gri failure mainly because im used to it working in that situation... and i guarantee we are all guilty of doing this, and in my ACMG course this is how we were taught to do it.

Again to emphasize... keeper knots save lives.. or at least ankles!

Posted 1 year ago #
atp
Member

I've had the gri-gri fail twice on me as well. I've never heard of a safety knot but now that I've read this I will start to do that. A stopper knot? is it simple and how often do you tie it? just something at the bottom of the rope or every so many feet? Thanks for the info...

Posted 1 year ago #
Carpie
Member

atp. For stopper knots there are a few you can use. You can do an over hand on a bight; will stop you from falling and if you weight it to pull up a bucket on the rope it will stay. The other is a slip knot. (someone correct me if naming this wrong). This is a great knot because you can easily tie it with your right hand alone if you are running a route. It also will stop you if falling and on the way down you can pull it out by simply pulling from the bottom of it. (Can get down in no time with out stopping to untie each stopper) The slip however can come out if hauling a bucket up the rope as you then are weighting it from the "untie" side. Hope this helps!

Posted 1 year ago #
acorneau
Member

I tie overhands. Like Carpie said, you can pull up a bucket and they'll stay put and for me their easy to tie and untie.

Be careful if you use slip knots... If you tie them the wrong direction then you're hosed.

Posted 1 year ago #
Kaleb Thomas
Member

Sorry to keep dropping credentials... I feel like a bit of a tool!!

The ACMG told me in my course Figure 8 on a bight maximum every ten feet.

OH&S standards are that your fully protected above 8 feet so I always tie my first know there, we only have 22 foot walls, so i tie my second one at 16 feet.

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Posted 1 year ago #
Dan The Man
Member

One really convenient trick is to stick an extra ascender on your bucket. When you haul it up, you can just clamp the whole thing onto the anchor strand of your rope (requires your weight on the rope so doesn't work if you are climbing a ladder or trying moves). The advantage is that you can move your bucket up and down the rope and don't have its weight hanging off of you anywhere.

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Posted 1 year ago #

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