Usacsetting.net has just posted the applications for setters who want to set at the upcoming SCS Youth Nationals in Atlanta GA in July. This year's event will be held at the new Stone Summit climbing gym.
Go to usacsetting.net/comps to find more info and download applications.
There are five Assistants, 2 Apprentice and 2 Internship positions available. Due date for applications is April 19th.
Do you have to be certified for the assistant positions? I guess I can follow the link and find out for myself huh!?!?!
Yep, certs are required for all Assistants.
SCS Youth Nationals- Stone Summit, Atlanta, GA., July 8th - 11th 2010
Chief: Mike Helt, OR
If you would like to join the routesetting crew for the upcoming SCS Youth Nationals then please apply for one of the positions below. Email your filled out application form and resume (for interns only) to Mike@routesetter.com by April 19th 2010.
Setters must arrive in Atlanta on Sat July 3rd and will leave on Mon. July 12th.
Assistants: There are 5 positions open to Assistant setters. Assistants must be Level 3 certified. This is a paid position.
Click to download application.
Apprentice: There are 2 positions available for Apprentice Setters. All Apprentices must be at least Level 2 certified and have prior experience setting at a SCS National Championship event. All travel costs will be paid for by USAC.
Click to download application.
Intern: There are 2 Internships available. Interns must be at least Level 2 certified and have prior experience setting at USAC sanctioned Championship level events (Regional, Divisional).
Other requirements:
Must have experience setting for youth categories in an on-sight format.
Must have the ability to red-point 5.12a and preferably more.
Must be an efficient setter in regards to rope management.
Must come with an open mind and ready to work and learn.
If you would like to be considered please provide your resume.
Click to download application.
Wow... you have to have a level 2 cert just to be an intern? That doesn't leave any room for those of us with no money...
While I certainly understand the importance of extremely high levels of setting, I would like to think that USAC would give back to the community. Do you guys use any of the local setters from the gym and try to upgrade their knowledge while you are setting? Can the local setters set?
I remember this being a huge thread on the old forums, but couldnt remember what was discussed or the out come of anything.
Thanks,
i agree that this can be a little frustrating for those of us that dont have any cert and surely cant afford the travel and clinic costs. i understand the desire to make setting a bit more professional and instill some quality standards, however the out of pocket expense to attend one of these clinics is quite substantial, especially when there hasnt been a clinic within a thousand miles of my particular location. i know it has been said before but it would be beneficial in my opinion to offer more clinics over a more geographically diverse area.
Geeze, stop da complainin! Bunch of lil skoulyard girls, its like someone kissed the boy u liked.. Of course it cost money to attend the certs, ur payin 2b educated like everywhere elz. If ur ser'ious bout wantin to set fo Nats then u'll findaway to make the money.. Gots a 20 if u mow my lawn or give mea bath.
Climbingholdreview.com u stilz suck.
you guys have to realize a couple things. being certed doesnt mean you are dope. what it means is that it is the only way USAC is positive that you have gotten any type of education regarding competition routesetting. if you take a clinic then someone responsible (ie someone involved with the nationals setting process) has seen you set or can vouch for you in one way or another. setting for nationals, although be it an education, is not the time for you to get educated on how to set for competitions.
these guys need top level setters who already know their stuff and are competent to handle themselves.
if i was to apply, and i have no certs, who are these guys going to talk to about my setting? your manager, the members at your gym, some of the kids on your climbing team?
they need hard evidence that you can do this already. there is no other way for them to know this.
just like anything, there is a process. you take the steps necessary to step up in your field if you take it seriously. i got no money is no excuse. if you want it, you make it happen. you could be the best setter in the world, or you could suck ass. either way, its better for them to know before hand.
Hey Tyson thanks for your input.
I didn’t mean to come across as an arse, I know sometimes its difficult to express or articulate thoughts in black and white.
While cost is a concern for everyone I think, this wasn’t my major concern. I was more interested in what or how we are going about distributing the knowledge of others. Therefore I created a different thread, “How…”. The reason behind that thread is to find out just that, how setters originally gained their knowledge. I think that there are a lot of setters who aren’t “dope” and maybe they don’t want to be National setters. But they do want to gain more knowledge and better themselves. Not everyone wants to take it to that ‘serious’ level that you mention, if you know what I mean, but they do want to learn how to be better regardless.
I think that personal development is an important part of the process; maybe the gym and the setter could go halves on the cost, to upgrade the level. Ideally you’d want to help everyone across the US, in order to raise the entire level of setting across the board. This way I could see the gyms producing more elite competitors and therefore requiring more qualified setters. Maybe I’m just naïve, but essentially that makes sense, right? Maybe in theory this works, but practically… I dunno?
I think competitions are the way to go to popularize the sport, but at a grass roots level how can we boost the participation if the setting is not up to scratch. Its catch 22 right!? Obviously it has a lot more to do with everything else, not just setting, but I kinda feel like setting is where all of this spawns from.
Anyways Im going off topic here, but essentially I think what Im after is a way to increase a 1000 setters knowledge by 1% rather than increasing 1 setters knowledge by a 1000%.
your last quote is good.
the level 2 cert is geared toward competition setting. that is what it was developed for.
my point was, if you want to be a national level setter,and set for the events, then you need to get the certs.
not, if you want to be dope, then you need to get the certs.
i personally think the certs, by no means, make you dope. i have seen plenty of folks who has gone through clinics, and still suck ass ;)
when myself or any of our setters at vertical world want to get certed, the policy is that we pay half, and the gym pays half. the only time i encourage my setters to get certed, is if they plan on competition setting at a higher level. otherwise, i think it is money wasted. anything they need to know to set for our gyms and our clientele, they can learn right here with me. not that they couldnt come away better, but money, as mentioned, is a concern.
Point taken and answer is qualified!
I mean really isnt that the way to go... If I was offered halves on any ticket around America, I would rather hit you up Tyson and ask to set with you guys for a week. I feel as though I would be ... "enlightened" more than what is offered in a 2 or 3 day course. Its like reading a book and meeting an author, you'd think it would be the same, but its totally different.
I once spent a day (well a couple, but not all setting) with Timy Fairfield, granted this was a coaching clinic and not a setting clinic, but just the little bit of setting we did made me feel so "green" in my field. Its those types of walk throughs that help you understand the knowledge that you are applying, not just regurgitating it. I think this is where I insert your quote about setters going through clinics and sucking ass...
Please again, dont get me wrong I fully understand and agree that the service that USAC provides is an essential part of our routesetting regiment. But as you just explained Tyson, if you want to set Nationals, get the cert, if not learn from your peers.
The issue here is that there are no peers within a reasonable driving distance, for many.
So what do we do?
Get your gym to hire Chris Danielson to come out and teach a clinic at your gym!
Really, I get the thing about cost, but the idea that you can learn more from setting with another crew for a week than in a 2-3 day course with an extremely experienced professional setter and instructor is not 100% accurate. Both groups would certainly offer some "enlightenment," but the clinics are specially designed to help people have many of those little "ah-ha" moments that will affect not just your setting but your perspective on setting. Not just "Ah-ha, Bob set a cool move!" but "Ah, so that's how that works..." and "That's how they force sequences that are crowd pleasing and technically difficult..." and "Oh, I never thought of that!" and "What would happen if I tried to set a three times left hand bump?" Like climbing techniques, setting techniques are tools you can learn to help you understand setting and set better. The clinics are supposed to help you learn about some of these tools.
As to crappy setters coming out of clinics, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
Chris?
Sorry Donovan, I don't get what you mean. Chris Danielson is a USAC head setter and clinic instructor, among other things.
there is a old interview with him here: http://www.e-grips.com/setters/
on the old routesetter.com he sometimes put up videos of experiments he did. it's too bad old rs.com is gone, there was a lot of useful info in the forums there that seems to have just gone up in smoke.
I thought that he might be on these forums and that I could get a reply out of him. Anyone got an email for Chris?
I've met Chris many times here and there, but nothing official, he's a great guy. Im thinking... "Chris Danielson - Routesetting Road Tour"
What do you think?
Donovan - my email is cdanielson@gthi.com. I do public and private routesetting clinics quite often, some sanctioned, and others not. Though I have done routesetting clinics and workshops in different gyms across the eastern US, I do hear from setters most often in the mid-west or east coast who have not had the opportunity to travel to clinics. When it comes to sanctioned USAC Clinics, we schedule them at gyms interested in hosting them, so if you are an interested routesetter in a region where there has not been a USAC Clinic, I'd encourage you to talk with your gym's head setter, manager, or owner.
I would be happy to talk to any gyms who would be interested in having myself or another USAC Instructor come out for a sanctioned clinic, OR, to set something non-sanctioned up that in some cases might more specifically benefit a gym or group of setters, depending on their interests and goals. Routesetting Road Tour - I like the name!
My goal as a routesetter is always to get people thinking about the craft in a professional way, and to also, if I can, challenge myself and others to look at old ideas in new ways, or try new things. As with "teaching" of any kind, some people will benefit more than others, and that's to be expected.
I appreciate all the comments from everyone - this has always been an interesting topic. I could say much more in detail about the history, structure, and goals of the USAC programs and competitions, and would happily discuss the USAC Routesetting Clinic and Certification program in person with anyone. I have done a lot of work to develop this program and those of us who have instructed the sanctioned clinics have received positive feedback consistently. That is not to say that a sanctioned USAC clinic is for everyone, or that everyone will benefit from the structure and format. There are hundreds of experienced and talented setters out there and I certainly would not expect that all of you would want, need, or be "enlightened" by, any form of certification, whether routesetting or otherwise. I also always welcome, and am eager to receive any kind of constructive feedback, positive or negative, from anyone who does attend a clinic.
As was brought up by Donovan here, and in another post, and has been well commented on - there are a lot of ways to learn and improve, and a routesetting clinic with an experienced setter, sanctioned or otherwise, is just one way. I certainly do not think that anyone who participates in a clinic of any kind, taught by anyone, can go into it knowing little, and walk away feeling like, "now I know how to set routes." It is obviously much more complicated, subtle, and uniquely challenging. Personally I "learned" what I know and how I approach routesetting, as many have, mostly by simply working at it for a long time. I did have a couple important climbing peers/mentors who I learned from informally (Tim Steele and Mike Moelter would be the most notable among them), but overall, I have learned by and large from years of experience, a lot of time just "thinking" about climbing movement and how to create it, and through working with hundreds of different setters over the years. And, in the past decade, I actually have learned a lot about routesetting specifically through "teaching" or working with others on how to improve.
One thing that I think is important to note is that there are two levels of USAC Routesetting Clinics. The Level 1 Clinics are intended to be an introduction to competition routesetting, and will probably appeal broadly to newer and experienced setters alike. I firmly believe beginners will benefit greatly with some structured information and instruction about how things are commonly done, tips and tricks, pitfalls, etc. I have also had numerous setters with a lot of experience find benefit from a Level 1 Clinic, if only because it is a great opportunity to work with an experienced setting peer in a structured format. Though the cost of traveling to a clinic may be significant depending on where you are, the Level 1 Public Clinic itself is only $100.00 per participant, which I think is quite a good deal for 2 days of professional development in any field. I would encourage anyone to attend a Level 1 Clinic who has at least a bit of routesetting experience, and firmly believe that those who have many years of experience will also benefit from such a clinic, as long as they go into it with an open mind.
The Level 2 Clinics are much different and are only offered once or twice per year since we've begun the program. These clinics are completely focused on competition routesetting for championship level USAC events (regional, divisional, national) and though I would think they could be beneficial for anyone, they are certainly designed and best suited for routesetters that are really interested in higher level competition routesetting and perhaps advancing further as certified setters for USAC events.
USA Climbing is the national governing body for competitions, and in order to increase the professionalism and quality of routesetting at USAC events, the clinic and certification program is essential. There are very few USAC events that the organization can offer internships at, and Youth SCS Nationals is one of the best events in the country to get the opportunity to learn and improve - I would encourage those whom are interested and qualified, to apply.
Wow, thanks Chris for taking the time to express your thoughts. I really appreciate the detail and attention to how you craft not only your professional aspects, but your personal ones as well.
You've pretty much answered all my questions, so when I have time to formulate some more, I'll post them up here and/or send you an email (for price specific information).
Again thank you for all your help and knowledge.
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