Single-size bolts and Bolt PLUG « Routesetter.com Forum

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Single-size bolts and Bolt PLUG

(9 posts) (7 voices)

Started 11 months ago by pako
Latest reply from oldgoat

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pako
Member

What do you think about this idea ?

We at HRT wanted to find solution for the problem of using different lengths of bolts. The first step was clear- to have the same distance between the washer and the bottom of the hold.
Another problem occurred at that point- the remaining empty hole above the bolt head - for the bigger holds.

In order to fill that space we made the BOLT PLUG.

It is made of thermoplastic elastomer- TPE – which is a plastic material with behaviour of rubber.
It fits good in the hole and is fixed at its place by the ring of the plug and the channel in the bolt hole.
The PLUG itself has an ellipse-shaped hole through which the wrench or the cordless screwdriver reach the bolt and screw it.

Apart from using single-size bolts the Plug has another advantage – it keeps the bolt constantly in its place in the hold and makes placing of the holds on the walls easier. A route-setter can prepare the hold with the bolt before going up and there just screw the hold easily.

here are some pics for illustration:

Posted 11 months ago #
Mike
Member

Are the bolts always in the hold? I'd be happy with just having one kind of bolt no matter the size.

Posted 11 months ago #
pako
Member

Generally, yes. They can be removed by pushing the bolt from the bottom ( I mean the visible part of the bolt, when the hold is off the wall) - pushing towards the plug with not quite big and not quite weak force- and the plug comes out, because it is soft. In fact the hardness is 30 shore A.

Posted 11 months ago #
jus728
Member

The one thing i see is if you leave the bolts in the holds all the time, is when they are put in bins, shelves, or piles on the floor. I could see the bolts being damaged easy. now if you just take them out like normal i guess its not a big deal

Posted 11 months ago #
acorneau
Member

It may work for some walls, but we have concrete walls so the t-nut depths are all different. Given any particular spot on the wall you may need to have as much as a 3/4" longer/shorter bolt than other areas.

Also, wouldn't you have to take out the plugs and bolts when washing them? Sounds like it would be a net-loss in time/convenience.

Posted 11 months ago #
AndyL
Member

I think it is a start of a good idea and holding bolts in holds would be useful for working on roof's, etc where I always seem to drop the bolts.

However I think a bigger issue is stopping people from using bolt holes as mono's especially for competitions. (@2:00min is an example: http://vimeo.com/19962834)

Something to think about while working on the design.

Posted 11 months ago #
pako
Member

thanks a lot for the comments !

for jus728's comment: I guess that will have to be checked in practice. I am not sure if the contact between the bolt and the floor or bins will be stronger than when the bolts are in their packs.
But generally - ( coz we are now starting to implement the Bolt Plug )- we dont expect the bolt plug to be used in more than 25-30 % of the holds, because most of them are not that high to need it. And that we think will be enough to guarantee the use of one length of bolt.
And at the end as you suggest- bolts can be removed at any time, by removing the plug.

for acorneau: yes,if the t-nuts depths are all different, one cannot take 100 % advantage of this system. Still here- the help will be that you will know how much the bolt will stick out from the bottom of the hold for any particular length of bolt.

And here I realize that I have missed to mention smth important - the distance between the bottom part of the insert ( washer), and the bottom of the hold is 30 mm ( 1.18 inches).

for the washing: indeed - they must be removed, but still having in mind that only a part of the holds will need a plug, we hope that the time saved during route-setting will be more, and the overall effect will be positive. I guess again - the practice will
show best.

For andyl: in fact the first idea of the plug- is to cover the hole above the bolt when there is one. The position of the plug is always the highest possible to the surface of the hold, in order eliminate possible undesired places for holding. And the hardness and the ring of the plug make it impossible to push the plug inside the bolt hole.

Posted 11 months ago #
Herman
Member

Wow, this is the most over engineered solution I ever saw.

I see no reason to want a bolt plug other then stopping the one finger pocket. so a bolt plug would be nice for that.

I do see the added value in a single size bolt but if the hold comes off the wall it will have to be washed. period. So the bolt plug must come off.

Using a single size bolt the inexperienced setter cannot take the wrong bolt. which is nice. But there will be a lot moro mono's to be plugged so the experienced setter will spend more time.

So instead of looking for the correct bolt you will have to get a bolt and a most of the time a bolt plug. That doesn't save time at all. So it is not a good solution.

You will still need 2 size bolts though. something up to 40 mm with all threads and something like the bolt you displayed. which is like 80mm with only partial threads.

If I were a hold maker I would make holds that are suitable for either 40, 60, 80 or 100 mm etc. bolts. And the bolt should always be even with the front of the hold. So no need for bolt hole plugs ever.
Taken into account a insert depth or 18 to 21 mm i would make holds with a depth 0 to 18 mm (so a 40 mm bolt is the only one that will ever fit) or 35 to 40 mm (so only a 60 mm will fit) and so on.

But reality is that there will be lots of type of climbing holds in a gym so i have a hard time believing this standard.

However this might be seen as a good (safety) feature for school walss and for walls with inexperienced managemend and/or setters. So it will probably be a huge succes.

Posted 11 months ago #
oldgoat
Member

I like that HRT is putting so much effort into improving the general engineering and safety of holds. The material choices, colors and durability are top notch - but I feel the shaping could still be improved.
My concern with the single size bolt approach is the lack of material that remains between the base of the bolt head/washer and the wall. I find that that larger holds with a deeper shaft are less likely to become spinners during use. The pressure of a tightened bolt is spread more evenly across the entire base of the hold allowing for a tighter purchase. A short shaft tends to limit how much pressure from the tightened bolt is spread out through the hold base and wall. Not a problem with smaller and mid size holds, but a concern with larger sizes.
Probably still a good solution for small school walls, but I don't think this will make life much easier for large commercial gyms.
Keep up the R&D - and maybe look for some shapers outside of Europe.

Posted 11 months ago #

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