Spot pads in Bouldering Areas « Routesetter.com Forum

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Spot pads in Bouldering Areas

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Started 1 year ago by smokeNmirrors
Latest reply from atticus

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smokeNmirrors
Member

ARGH> I had another team kid break an ankle this weekend in the gym falling on the edge of a spot pad. This is the second occurrence in six months. The gym uses the typical blue floor system found around the country but it's open cell foam is compacted out in some places, and spot pads of various sizes and thicknesses (3"-7") are used to supplement. The top bouldering height is about 13' and even I'm not comfortable falling from that height onto the current floor unless its onto the nice 6'x6'x7" asana spot pads we have available. These are a blessing and a curse, great landing but they also twist ankles.

Is this a common occurrence at your facility? Any suggestions on best practices I could recommend to the owner? Do you guys allow / use spot pads? I've voiced my concerns earlier this year but after this I feel confident the floor system needs replacement / redesign. (5 years old heavy use) and intend to do what I can as the coach to get things right.

Posted 1 year ago #
Herman
Member

I think it is very bad practice to have additional pads on top of the normal floor (pad) system.

Common sense tells you that everything which is has an edge that is thicker then 1 or 2 centimeters will cause ankle injuries if you fall on the edge.

Sounds like the flooring needs to be replaced.

Posted 1 year ago #
RhoadsClimbs
Member

We've had the same argument over and over, pads or no pads?

Pros:
-Pads save the very expensive floor you have from premature wear in high traffic falling zones.
-Pads do same some injuries.
-If you don't have pads and someone gets hurt it could be claimed in a lawsuit that you should have had pads and if you did it would have prevented the injury.

Cons:
-Cost
-Ankle breakers

My personal opinion is that they same some injuries and cause others and it is best to have them available to those who choose to use them but be sure to educate your patrons on how to properly use them.

Posted 1 year ago #
slmrit
Member

Beveled edge pads.

Posted 1 year ago #
Donovan Craig
Member

We have 3" foam all across the gym with just industrial carpet covering it. I have never seen anyone sprain their ankle just on the 3" floor covering. But because its only 3" we use these...8'x8'x6" to add extra coverage for boulders.

http://www.asanaclimbing.com/drag8inBevel.gif

If you cover the fall zone properly there are no broken ankles. The 45 edge does help somewhat but I have seen a few still sprain their ankles on the 45 edge.

I dont think we will ever get to the bottom of this because when climbing indoors, we feel that we can push ourselves, therefore trying harder which leads to breaking ankles. Outside we tend to be more cautious, its just the nature of the beast.

In my personal opinion, I dislike the big blue wall to wall padding, its so stiff and just the slightest bad landing leads to tweaks and breaks.

SnM I think you are doing everything you can, but I might suggest upgrading to 8'x8' for better coverage...

Posted 1 year ago #
Herman
Member

I really don't understand the reponse from Donovan when he says: I dont think we will ever get to the bottom of this because when climbing indoors, we feel that we can push ourselves, therefore trying harder which leads to breaking ankles.

In My opinion the owner of the gym is responsable for safe conditions in the gym.

If he allows bouldering up to a certain height he is responsable to provide the correct padding for that.

As history proves all padding that includes edges (even with 45 degrees), gaps or the ones that are not wide enough are not safe. I say this because it is inherent that people will not look where the pad is., will not cover the gaps and won't stop bouldering at a certain height because they don't have the extra thick Pad.

So the Gyms should provide descent padding. If they don't do that then yes they share some of the responsabilities for the broken ankles.

In The EU you have a voluntary code about Climbing walls, Tnuts and bouldering walls& padding. It says that all padding must be flat, continuous, without interuptions and must at a minimal extend 2.50 meters to the side and the back of the climbing wall footprint. The code dos not specify the appropriate hardness and thickness of the padding. it merely says that both should be "appropriate"

This is a voluntary code, but in order to get an assurance it is mandatory.

So the Gyms should provide descent padding: flat, continuous, without interuptions and must at a minimal extend x meters to the side and the back of the climbing wall of the appropriate hardness and thickness.

If they don't do that then yes they share some of the responsabilities for the broken ankles.

Posted 1 year ago #
Brannon
Member

If you talk to a doctor about the injury potential from a fall from 10-15', they will almost all agree that ankle injury is a forgone conclusion. As climbers we learn how to fall, how to trust our pads and spotters...we know how to limit our risk to minor (and serious) injury. But...shit happens. We make sure the pads are pushed tightly together but our foot still find the seam. I have seen tweaked ankles from falling onto a HUGE, super cushy pad.

If effort goes into protecting customers with quality padding products and staff supervision then that is all a gym can do. A gym cannot be held responsible for every nimnut who decides to boulder in the top rope area or not heed the posted warnings regarding the dangers of landing on the edges of pads.

I don't mean to make light of anyone's past or current injuries resulting from landing badly on a pad, but staying focused, moving pads/have spotters move the pads during traversing routes, and staying aware of what's going on around you will limit a significant amount of risk.

I know this doesn't provide any helpful thought about what can be used for a floor covering, but sometimes there is more to it then replacing the equipment. Changing behavior is cheaper, last longer, and is very low cost.

Posted 1 year ago #
kent dunham
Member

Futon Mattresses! I'm not even sure how the gym I go to started using them, but if you place an old futon mattress on top of the big blue sea of gym pads it will provide you with the softest landing you have ever felt. Because of the soft edge I have not seen a sprain or break caused by the mattresses yet. We get them for free, wich is an added bonus. Everyone is looking to get rid of a futon. It may look a bit ghetto, but try it and you will become a believer.

Posted 1 year ago #
Carpie
Member

We have Asana pads over a fairly hard rubber floor. The pads were purchased to make up for the floor as it was an old design. The pads however are 4'x4'x1' I believe. These provide a large enough area so that when falling if it is centered you will never hit an edge. They are also not too big to move and stack if wanted.
Inside the pads is mostly open cell foam with a layer of closed cell foam over it to spread the impact and not let a foot sink in to the open foam causing tweaks. This has worked great.
There is still the occasional twisted ankle and it is always due to the climber not looking where they are going to land or the spotter not moving the pad.

Posted 1 year ago #
Donovan Craig
Member

Dont cheap out... get the 8'x8' its more than worth the shipping cost! Lessons learned the hard way!

Posted 1 year ago #
Brannon
Member

To anyone who works at a gym that uses pads...

If a gym were to go from just a cushioned floor to adding spot pads, is there a breaking in period for the recreational climbers at the gym? Does it take some time (and a few ankle injuries) for people learn how to fall onto thick pads and for folks to move pads for traversing routes?

In other words, is there a "breaking in period" where there is a slight rise in injuries? And, now that you have the pads do you see less injuries?

Posted 1 year ago #
Donovan Craig
Member

We saw less injuries with the new beveled edged pads, however they were just better quality than we had had before, therefore it was a 2 fold upgrade. BUT the severity of the injuries remained the same, there are just less of them, I want to say they decreased by about 1/3.

Also when thinking flooring, Gymnastic places have been doing flooring for years, and I would think than when vaulting or tumbling they would apply similar force to the ground as same a 12ft fall, would you think? Maybe check out the local gym for ideas.

The other day at the gym, an old staff member dislocated his ankle. He was at the top of the topout boulder therefore hands at 14ft and his feet must have been at about +/-8ft, when he jumped back down onto the middle of a pad. He was fully aware of what, where, when and how, yet still managed to dislocate the thing! Just proving that we can try as hard as we want to protect ourselves, but nature will still take its course, so to speak.

Posted 1 year ago #
Brannon
Member

I used to work at a climbing gym that shared the building with a gymnastics program. The sprung floor (usually covered in blue carpet, several layers or foam resting on thousands of springs) they used is MUCH firmer then anything you would want to land on when climbing. They use huge foam "pits", 8'x8'x3' of open cell foam covered in vinyl and mesh for practicing tumbling before moving on to landing on the floor. Although they are the best thing to land on (think of falling onto a cloud) they are big and heavy. We used them for highball comp routes (20') but they would be a pain for daily use...just way too big.

Posted 1 year ago #
Vincent
Member

Bouldering is dangerous!

Personally... I've tweaked my ankle (not broken but strained) more often by misjudging the last step of a staircase or stepping down a curb.

Our gym has seen a few twisted ankles (some broken) by falling wrong both on and off the extra pads. We've also seen a few broken wrists from bouldering/falling wrong.

Bouldering is dangerous! Maybe there should be bouldering safety instruction/certification just as there is for TR and Lead.

I've seen so many close calls w/ ... and am waiting and expecting to see someone get knocked out by getting kicked in the head when a boulderers feet cut loose!

... I'm sure it has happened somewhere...

Posted 1 year ago #
Jbrunson
Member

a bouldering safety cert is something i've considered too.. i see a lot of our regulars sitting on their butts looking the other way when they should be spotting their gumby friends.. i've seen some scary stuff on $5 college night.

I've never been in a gym that imposes such a restriction.

Boulderites, how are you liking those new asana pads at the spot? I haven't been back to see the new wall but i'm intrigued by the "foam-pit-in-a-sack" design.

Posted 1 year ago #
smokeNmirrors
Member

many thanks for the round table discussion!! It's gotten our gym talking and it sounds like something will be done. I'll post an update as we progress.

Posted 1 year ago #
Aaron
Member

We haven't implemented a bouldering safety cert, but we do include spotting, how to place a pad properly and how to fall in our beginners lesson. This way, people at least have the info that will help keep them safe.
Beveled edge pads are the way to go, as when you slide them together, they create a giant landing surface with no seams that you can fall through.

Posted 1 year ago #
Sloperslapper
Member

I'm personally a huge fan of the new pads at the spot. It takes a bit of reconditioning to convince yourself to just collapse onto your back or side when you hit them, but when you've got your confidence up to do that, you really feel like you can go balls-out and try crazy stuff without being afraid of falling. I dig 'em a lot.

Posted 1 year ago #
atticus
Member

I vote for no pads. No fun dragging around boulder pads or twisting your ankle. 'Movement' probably has the best floor out of all gyms around the country I have visited. It's a new gym though, well see how well they hold up...

Posted 1 year ago #

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