Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...
"Rockville climbing instructor arrested in sexual assault of 14-year-old student.
31-year-old man charged with sexual abuse of a minor"
My heart goes out to the Earth Treks family, the US national climbing team, and to everyone involved in this unfortunate situation.
(If the moderators feel it is inappropriate for this to be posted here, please delete it.)
It is very sad.
I think discussion of it would be good.
I used to boulder near him while he was coaching the kids' team...eww.
Either way, what's happened has happened and I don't think this should stain the Earth Treks brand too bad in the long run. With the exception of this guy, ET's a fantastic gym with awesome people working really hard to provide a comfortable atmosphere for young and adult climbers to thrive in.
Btw, it's "half your age plus seven," not "half your age plus negative one point five."
The last sentence of that comment is definitely what I would call "inappropriate" for the topic. There are a number of people on this site that personally know Mike Lyons and the issue is still very raw for those involved with the team and the community. While a discussion among the community can and should occur, I would ask that we all use a little discretion and civility when speaking on the matter publicly. I do not wish to hinder anyone from speaking candidly on the subject, but to seek to remind everyone that many are still hurting and emotions remain quite high. Thanks,
-Ellis Whitson-
Coach/Routesetter
Earth Treks Climbing Centers
Nothing to discuss I would say. This is probably very embarrassing to everyone involved and if I was owner of ET I would ask this post to be deleted. What is there to gain from a discussion?
This is a criminal matter that only happens to have taken place at a climbing gym and that's it. It doesn't belong on RS.com
While the event itself does not need to be discussed.
My guess is that there are going to be HUGE implications and an even larger scrutiny on all of the coaches out there. Whether it's warranted or not. Its a scar on the sport.
I'd be curious to know how all of the coaches out there are handling the situation.
Do you address it with the parents and acknowledge whats happened?
or do you just ignore it because its got nothing to do with you?
Nick, I 100% disagree with you. I think this is a very relevant place to discuss this situation, though I think the coaches forum would be even more relevant.
Why?
1. Because, like in every other sport and activity where adults have close relationships with teens, this kind of thing happens. A mentor/student relationship is often an intimate one, and some people are not going to have the judgement to remember that the student is still young, unexperienced, innocent, and most likely unaware of the implications and consequences (legal, moral, and otherwise) of maintaining that kind of tension that may seem exciting and fun. Teacher's pet, anyone? It happens. If anything, it is important to discuss to remind everyone in the community that teens are still teens, and that anyone under the age of 18 is not legally able to consent--that's why it's called the age of consent. Obviously, it's morally wrong and people who transgress should not be allowed to coach again, but I think that all goes with out saying so I'm going to stick to the other points.
2. Another important discussion I think should be had is for all coaches and instructors to remember to protect themselves. How? Never be alone with a student, especially especially especially a student of the opposite gender. Never put yourself in a situation where it is your word versus theirs. Even if it turns out you are innocent, the reputation stain from any proceeding like that would probably end your career in this industry.
3. It is likely that this news will bring up questions for parents of kids on other youth teams. It seems important for gyms to protect themselves and their instructors by establishing youth/coach policy and training all staff in it. That way questions can be answered and coaches and the gym will be protected.
I've known Lyons for years and I personally am not shocked that he had a failure of judgement as large as this one. I don't live in the East, and I don't know the situation, but my guess from knowing him, and from reading the news stories, is that he is not a predator or pedophile who began coaching to be around kids--he is a guy who likes climbing/coaching who developed a special intimate coach/student relationship with a teen on his team and then crossed the line with it. I think it is easy to imagine teens are older than they are, even if you know their actual age, especially considering the way some of them dress and act. (Again, before someone gets pissed, I am not saying "she was asking for it", I am just trying to be realistic about what can and does happen, and some of the factors that can lead to it. Most teens can talk and act like adults, especially in our community, and sometimes it's hard to remember that they aren't older--they themselves don't even know how much they didn't know until they are in their 20's and look back at themselves, and honestly I imagine that happens after every decade of growth. I don't know this girl and I am not accusing her of anything, nor justifying anything even if she did wear tiny clothing and act extremely flirtatious. She is still a minor, and, again, even if she threw him down and jumped on him, there is no way a girl of 14 can fully understand the implications or consequences of that action or others she might take. 14 is not old enough to legally consent for a reason. All I am trying to say is that, no matter her actions or his feelings about them, as the ADULT in the situation he was responsible for drawing the line and not crossing it. He clearly failed to do that, and he should not be allowed to work with minors again.)
I think it is also important to note, and this is an issue his friends have brought up other places, it is not like he plucked her off the street and tied her up in his basement. Acting like he is some sexual predator who came into climbing to assault somebody is a cop out and does not address the important issues for gyms, coaches, and youth climbers that are brought up in this situation.
I heard of two other instances of this--in Texas with a guy named Zach Allen? And in California around 10 years ago with a gym employee and the gym owner's daughter. And also, but not illegal, a coach at my old gym left his wife for a youth team girl after she turned 18. As far as I know he didn't cross the legal line before that, but eeeeewwwwww anyone?
So, yeah. Thoughts? Anyone else heard of this kind of situation? This seems like a good time to make sure all your adults are acting appropriately with all the kids at your gym...
great post jackie.
this is very unfortunate. in the last week i have felt many emotions from anger to sorrow. trying to grasp this has been hard, especially when it was your friend.
i have traveled the world with mike many times and looked forward to seeing him at every big event. he did many many wonderful things for the association and youth climbing in general.
but bottom line, something happened to him that made him think this was ok, or maybe he didnt think it was ok and lost all self control. i dont know.
what i do know is that we have worked very hard for very long to professionalize coaching in climbing, and i am not going to let mike and his heinous act take away from what we have achieved professionally and personally.
this is not a setback, this is another unfortunate incident just like the rest. its not just climbing, it is every sport. as jackie said, we need to protect ourselves, educate our coaches/assistants and move on focusing on youth climbing and competitions.
Seriously? If anyone needs a fucking reminder not to pursue under-agers we've all ready lost. There's no excuse here and if the allegations are true the perpetrator should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
The only lesson here for a climbing gym is to be VERY careful whom they hire for coaching young kids and keep a keen eye on them regardless. This is a failure of proper supervision and ET should be very concerned about being held responsible.
BS!!!
ET Responsible??? really? unless he's had a history of it or an outward display of it how could they be responsible?? Its a reprehensible act and he should be held accountable. But to pass the blame onto the employer is equally reprehensible. Proper supervision was supposed to be provided by HIM!! and he took advantage of that.
I have been hit with a bunch of emotions by this and have been looking for a place to discuss it. Still, I have held off posting because it is sensitive.
5 hours before the news broke of Mike's arrest, I was having a discussion with another coach and Mike came up. I don't know Mike as well as Tyson and others on here, but knew him well enough that he knew who I was. I only witnessed him with his team once and was shocked at how much he touched his female team members. I chalked it up to not knowing Mike or his relationship with his team very well, but I told my other coach about how I thought it was creepy how he acted with his kids. Now if I saw this, why didn't someone else? Why didn't anyone closer to the situation say something? Of course looking back everything is clear, but I do feel that there is some shared responsibility here. Obviously, Mike is to blame, but how was he allowed to be alone with someone in a rock gym?
I hope my comments are appropriate and apologize to Tyson and others who know Mike better if I am being offensive...
Theo... I too have held off commenting here because I know that others obviously knew Mike closely and I only knew of him and could name him in a crowd. I never spoke with him but I did watch him with his team and had similar observations and feelings. It does concern me that folks are not surprised by the arrest (i.e., on ET's blog, one parent indicated that it was no surprise but they would hold their comments for now). While I hold Mike solely responsible for his choices and actions and believe that everyone else should too, I am concerned that others who take their positions as climbing coaches and mentors and who knew him better did not see this coming. Even more so... if they did... why was he allowed to continue? Oprah used to have what she called the 'ah-ha' moment which was when she would push people to look back and admit that they saw clues all along but denied them. While I do not want anyone but Mike to be held accountable for what he did, I would like to know that this will wake up other coaches and even his close friends to the realization that as adults we all have a responsibility to speak up when we see things that just aren't right (yet still not illegal) and to put our foot down before the real offenses take place.
I wish Team ET the best of luck at Nationals and in their recovery.
Mike Lyons and I have worked together on many events over the past few years, including an event that weekend before he was arrested, I would call him a good friend. What Mike has done has sent a huge wave of shock all over local region and now the whole climbing community, nation wide. I'll admit that I too have seen Mike acting questionably around some of his Jr Team kids and chalked it up to just him having a closer relationship with his kids. For everyone who has seen this we probably all thought the same and that he's the adult and he'll know where the line is. Unfortunately Mike did not. The situation will be analyzed again and again until it's been beaten to death and fingers have been pointed everywhere. In the end it was Mike Lyons who made the error and he's going to have to deal with the consequences. It's horrible, but sometimes it takes a bad incident to wake everyone up and rules put into place to make sure it doesn't happen again. I hope from here on out, if we see a coach or employee acting inappropriately we at least mention it to their employer, if your gym doesn't already screen for criminal history they do so now, and lastly just let it serve as a warning that (like Jackie said) you should always protect yourself while dealing with young kids unsupervised.
Good luck team ET,
Jeremy
Everyone that I have spoken with who actually knew Mike closely over the last few years (i.e. co-workers, members, managers) is utterly floored by what has happened. Everyone had the utmost trust in him, and his leadership was rarely doubted in any situation given his previous coaching track record and relationship with USA climbing. This is NOT a case where suspicion was ever quashed or ignored- it was never even raised.
We all feel hurt by this, but those of us closest are certainly consumed by it. Mike was more than my co worker or a boss, he was my friend. The recognition that you were present during all of this, but failed to see the truth, is pretty devastating. I know that personally I cannot stop thinking about the issue- clues I could have missed, signs I should have seen.
Despite all of this though, I just want to reiterate that these are the actions of one man, and one man cannot tear down the incredible team community that still exists here. Our community as a whole has been very supportive, and while our climbers and parents are shaken by the events they also realize that Mike's actions cannot undo all the hard work they have put in. Thanks,
-Ellis
I really feel for those of you who knew Mike well and had the opportunity to be close to him. It is true, these are the actions of one man and they alone cannot unravel all of the hard work of others and that which will continue even after this.
If there is a lesson in it I suppose it would be that we have all at some point in our lives found ourselves hesitant to speak up when we should have because we find ourselves too close to a person or too distant or we fear that we will look bad if we do. If myself and other coaches who did not know him well have seen things that were questionable and ruled them off as 'Mike's just got that kind of relationship with the girls on his team and we don't know' or friends and co-workers who knew him better but gave him the ole punch in the shoulder and 'hey man, cut it out' or 'dude, you're crazy man' when he said something inappropriate about a young girl (not saying he did but it is a safe assumption at this point for the sake of my point) instead of going to the proper channels or really getting on him and inquiring further there may have been something to avoid this. Maybe not, but I know for me, it makes me less leery to speak up in the future. I'd rather be wrong and have an adult get a little pissed at me than have something like this happen to another child.
I'm not saying to go around slandering people or making a big deal out of what could really be nothing but we have all shrugged off something that made us uneasy only later to think back and realize that we had that gut instinct or feeling for a reason. Example, a video that is currently in the news on the web has Mike talking about a Team / After Hours party and how there were 'girls dancing on guys' and 'guys dancing on girls'. There is a young woman sitting next to him. Not sure of her age or if she is on the team but you can tell she appears shocked by what he is saying. In this video he is representing a Team of young children and a professional organization (two actually with USA involved). I am sure more than just the videographer have viewed this. Did anyone speak to him about it? Was what he said appropriate in friends, employers, parent's minds? Stuff like that.
Unfortunately yes, if ET management is shown to have ignored evidence that this was happening the families of girls on the team could sue for damages. Ever heard of the Vatican?
From the comments on this board it sounds like quite a few people noticed strange occurrences. We aren't arguing if Mike did it, that's for a court to decide, we are talking about the impact this could have on a business. Regardless of the facts I think parents will think twice about entrusting their children to the staff at ET. Unfair? Maybe, but the public hears two things from this story in the news "Earth Treks" and "Sexual Assault". Not the type of association I would be looking for. ET needs to be doing some serious damage control. As an employee Mike represented the business and the fact that incidents happened at the facility make it even worse.
I've made it a point to discuss this with my team kids and parents this week before going to Atlanta where I know it will be heavily discussed, and potentially a distraction.
Mike was one of the planners for the coaches symposium, is that event still on?
My best goes out to the Earth Treks team this weekend, sorry and disgusted you had to go through this.
You have got to be kidding... http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-rock-climbing-sex-offense-20110711,0,1049820.story
What the hell is going on over at ET?
Damn.
It's going to hurt for a while but it will be better for ET (and the community in general) if they go ahead and get rid of all the "bad apples" now and then move on.
Again, I feel sorry for the folks that have to go through something like this.
i was so very pleased to see this incident not effect the event last weekend. it was discussed but barely. and everyone was very focused on the comp. i was worried the event was going to get scarred, and it wasnt. way to keep things profesh guys and gals.
it was great to see the ET team with the business as usual look on their faces. nice work kids and those coaches who were there.
so we are at two coaches now?
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