http://www.theboulderingbook.com/2011/06/daniel-woods-interview-world-cup.html
A great interview with Daniel Woods about comps, the routesetting and the lack of support from the American federation.
Woods + Comps = Your Fault
(15 posts) (10 voices)-
Posted 11 months ago #
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a "wise old man" commented on the climbingnarc.com coverage of the article. I'll second his thoughts about it sounding like he is looking for excuses..
Posted 11 months ago # -
maybe excuses maybe he's got a point. the real question is what are we going to do to fix it?
Posted 11 months ago # -
I'm not sure what its like down south, but I have found in Canada there is only a handful of guys who set for competitions at a regional and national level. I hope this doesn't sound like sour grapes (maybe it is a bit), but I have tried and can't seem to bust into the old boys club. It's not that I can't set at that level, we've had some big names at our comps and I have been able to seperate the field and stump the strongest of them. I'm just not in that group.
The reason I bring this up is that sometimes the group that always sets at big events can get inbred in its ideas. You start seeing the same routes, the same style over and over. Its too bad because there are some innovative setters out there who could inject some new life into comps, raise the level of climbing and make the competitors more well rounded. But if the door to setting at higher levels remains closed, we will continue to see re-runs of previous comps.
I would also like to point out that even though the Euro comps are very different than what you see in North America, they are starting to all look the same too! Every comp for the past three years has been climbing on volumes with little or no holds.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Kent, I couldn't agree more.
I have been head setter at my gym (in newfoundland) for 2.5 years, and am an ACMG certified climbing instructor. I have E-mailed the head setter for the Tour De Bloc, as well as the tour organizer on several occasions, offering to pay my own travel expenses and work for free, and have never gotten a reply. Its aggravating, I have set a lot of comps, and know I am a good setter. I am not looking to set the hardest problem in finals, but I just want a chance to show what I can do... anyways... whatever... I guess its okay to have the same 5 guys set every comp, it makes it easier on the competitors because they know who set every problem and what to expect... wait... thats not the right idea at all. Well I guess I know nothing about national competition setting, I am just a guy from an Island.
As well, I know the canadian national team flew Tonde Katiyo in to do a "world cup climbing" training session, and if the canadians can afford that then the americans should be able to as well...
Fact is north americans only take "pro" sport (football, basketball, hockey and baseball) seriously. Our governments seem to not care about supporting the athletes that NEED the support. The only reason our olympic teams compete on any level is due to our population and the hard work of the individuals representing us, the financial support is hard to come by.
And Kent, it is sour grapes.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Kent/Kaleb-
While I am not questioning your setting skills in particular, there are probably hundreds of other guys who are thinking the same thing. In my opinion, just because you have set a few comps or maybe even been the head setter of some gym or college, doesn't mean you should be running the big events. The US has one of the best programs in place to keep fresh, talented faces rolling in. Every setter coming up has to do at least one event as an unpaid intern, and through evaluations the best setters continue up the chain. If you're not as lucky to work in the US, then I'd keep doing what you've been doing and offering your setting services for free for the chance to help out.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Hardin,
Your totally right. I am sure there is 100 other guys like myself, I know CEC is trying to get a setting certification program in place (like the usac) and I think that will be a huge step forward.
I've been working in the industry for 5 years, and plan to member for life, but I am moving on to other projects as my main focus. I just hope the setters that are just starting get opportunities to grow as setters.
Posted 11 months ago # -
usa climbing totally has a good old boys club going. for most it is not feasible from a time or money standpoint to break into this. those that finally do guard their positions with tenacity, as they should. it sucks but it is the way of the world. limited resources and politics rule all
Posted 11 months ago # -
Just FTI, even those select few with more or equal experience than the "good ol boys" club at the USAC are shut down. I have set commercially for 15 years, route set the AsianX Games 5x, JuniorX 3x, and US Invitationals like Gorge Games, FASC in Vail, SummerX 3x, and several regional level USAC comps.......still have to take a level 2 class.
Its a shame diversity in comps is not as important as a certification I am overqualified for in the first place.
Posted 11 months ago # -
I think Woods was complaining more about the lack of team support from USAC. He feels that if USAC were to help train him he would do better at comps. That's probably true. But until the US government deems it it fit to support USA Climbing or the organization wins the lottery that isn't going to happen. Thats not to say USAC doesn't want to support their athletes, they very much want to. Woods will get better at comps the more he does them and trains specifically for them. Until then he's going to get beat by athletes that put themselves in gyms day after day and TRAIN on plastic not just session.
Yes, the US style of setting is different then Euro style. So what. Every thing changes over time and I've already seen the change happening over the last few years. US setters are starting to set more like the Euros and the Euros are starting to set like the Americans.
To Kinz: What do yo mean by the "good ol boys club" that USAC is supposedly supporting? I'd like to point out that any one can become a National setter and set at the high profile pro comps and even world cups. All it takes a little of your time, a little financial support from your gym and a lot of skill. There are three guys interning at Youth Nationals in a few weeks who in the near future will probably be setting World Cups. And they will "guard" their positions with quality work and professional craftsmanship.
To Joe: You're my friend and this comes from a good place but you have to let it go! You have the skills and experience but are not willing to descend from your holy X-games high and take a Level 2 clinic and do an Internship. I'll point out that every comp you mentioned was not a USAC comp so how is USAC suppose to know exactly how well you work? Are we suppose to watch the X-games which, by the way, were not even run like a normal comp; Junior X? I've never even heard of that. Regionals? A hundred other setters set them every year that ARE willing to take a L2 and do an Internship and do it with out complaining.
And to all you young setters out there that have sour grapes towards USAC setting program: If you guys think that the routesetters setting today were just hand picked because we look good with a ratchet in our hand should keep in mind a few things.
Chris Danielson started setting at a college wall and worked his way up the ladder by volunteering at comps, lending a hand, and taking in the knowledge that led him to become one of the worlds best setters. (In fact just recently he paid for himself to get to the Canmore WC just so he could help the setting crew and see how the great French routesetter, Jackie Godoffe worked. That's dedication!)
Scott Mechler has been setting comps longer than most of you have been climbing. Yeah he's been around a while because he's good, really good. But he started by setting comps for free and staying up all night just to make sure the rinky dink local went off. Now he's setting World Cups and still the first guy at the wall and usually the last guy to leave at night.
Jeremy Harden, Myself, Luke Bertelsen, John Muse, Mark Mercer all these guys busted their ass in their respective regions for years before going through the system of clinics and all did their internship. Now they set for the biggest comps in the US.
But it doesn't end there. Every time we do a comp it's a test. Every route we set is a test. If we fail to live up to the standards USAC has placed on us, we won't get asked back. I'll say that our personal standards of professionalism are higher than any organization could put upon us.
We criticize ourselves pretty hard and are always trying to become better setters and put on a better show. But we're always happy to take comments from the public at large. We want to know how the comps looked from your point of view. That goes for our setting program as well. We think we have the worlds best routesetting program but if you see a better way to bring up setters we'd like to hear it.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Well said Mike.
Posted 11 months ago # -
i agree with literally every word mike just said.
if you want to move up in anything you need to drop your ego and you have to make some sacrifices.
every single person who is setting for the big events has put in countless hours of "time" and made more than their share of sacrifices (financial, family, time, ego, training) and continues to do so.go through the proper channels and programs and you will get the chance too.
and back on topic, daniel woods has some very good points. and his points come from experience. what he has seen at every world cup event he has gone to is what the euros are doing. and what the euros are doing is much different than what the US is doing. i noticed this myself while coaching at my first youth world championships, and have been shaking my head ever since. unfortunately for us, the USAC does not have the resources that the euro teams have.
but lets be straight, considering, the US does extremely well. the US has some amazing athletes that continue to podium in the open world cups and the youth world championships every year.
every one talks about what are we gonna do about it and we need change but no one ever steps up to dedicate their time and their money/efforts to make these changes. USAC is literally 3 people (who organize and run every big event in the country from youth to world cup and now UBCs) in an office who get paid, and dozens of volunteers around the country who basically pay out of pocket to make anything happen. all you ever hear is USAC needs to do this and USAC needs to do that. well, maybe they do, but they could use some help. and if you offer, dont ever say they arent willing to take it.Posted 11 months ago # -
Good thread! Its good to hear both from the hungry outsiders wanting to get in and the ones who have put in blood, sweat and tears to get in. Mike, I particularly apreciate your comments. I know its a ton of work and sacrifice to get to where you are. Probably more work and time than I will be able to give. It sounds like the States has a system in place that allows anyone who wants to get into setting a chance to show thier stuff. Unfortunately Canada does not have a system like that, which is probably why it ends up looking like an "old boys club." With no system in place you will always default to the ones you already know.
Does the USAC allow the "un-American" into thier setting clinics? Have you ever considered hosting a clinic in Canada? I know the gym I set for would be stoked to host one.
Thanks for the perspective and the needed chastizement.
Posted 11 months ago # -
i know usac clinics are open to anyone from any country. im also pretty sure that regardless of where you call home you can become certified via usac if you take the clinics.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Yeah, any one from any where can take a clinic. In fact Canadian Dustin Curtis was an intern at Youth Nationals last year in Atlanta.
Holding a clinic in Canada is a little more tricky. We've worked with the CEC from time to time but they haven't wanted to push forward a clinic program of their own. I don't really know why.
I suggest you and all your setting buddies bug the crap out of them and let them know there are setters that want to get certified and become professionals.
Posted 11 months ago #
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